DMX512 Touch Panel Locks Out My Wall Switch

[Stevens R. Miller]

Well, I'm back in my son's (former) middle school, running lights for a drama camp. The lighting system is a DMX 512 type, with an old (but mostly working) Innovator 24/48. The house lights are a bunch of recessed incandescents and also a bunch of fluorescents. The Innovator can control the incandescents in nine sets, but not the fluorescents.

There is a wall switch with two buttons on it: one toggles the incandescents, the other toggles the fluorescents. To put the Innovator in command, one turns off the incandescents, then turns on the Innovator. To reverse that, one blacks out all lights from the Innovator, then presses the wall switch button to bring the incandescents on again. The fluorescents are toggled on and off independently of whether the incandescents are on via the switch or are under control of the Innovator. For each button, a red LED is lit when the lights are on, and it is off when they are off.

All of which was fine, some months back, when I did another show there. This time, things have changed. When I entered the theater last Monday, the fluorescents were on, but the incandescents were off (the LEDs on the wall switch were on and off, resepectively). Now, that's the state I want them in, for a show and, indeed, turning on the Innovator put it in control, and all was well. But, at the end of the day on Monday, when I turned off the Innovator, I pressed the wall switch to turn on the house incandescents. No dice! The LED blinked on and off a few times, then went back to off, and the lights did not come on. The fluorescents could be turned on and off, no problem.

Well, this was fine for my purposes, as I prefer not to use the incandescents other than for shows (they burn out at an alarming rate, and getting them replaced requires a "work order," which I believe must be milddle school slang for "act of God"). But, today when I came in the reverse was the case: the incandescents were on, the red LED for them was also on, and when I pressed the switch to turn them off, their LED just blinked a few times, then went back to staying on, and the lights did not go off.

Here I will omit a lengthy description of the emotional reaction this provoked, as our debut is tomorrow.

After not getting anywhere with the school staff (who really can't be expected to know how any of this works), I broke my technician's prime directive and pushed a button whose function I did not know. Specifically, I poked the screen of an unlabeled device that, until then, I hadn't even known was on. I took pictures of it in the hope that someone can help me understand it better. Pushing the buttons pseudo-randomly eventually got me back to the state I was in on Monday (where the Innovator can control the lights, and the incandescents are otherwise off, uncontrollable by the wall switch). That's good enough for show-time, tomorrow, but I would dearly love to know more about what this gadget is and how to use it.

Can anyone help me?

 

[RickR]

The good news is that you have a great system with legendary support. ETC Paradigm. The bad news is that almost anything can be done with those and I have no information on the exact settings.

That green lock out button was the offending setting, but it was just doing it's job.

I could go on for pages about the how and why of the touchscreen. That is your main user access to the system, but avoid that last configuration screen, except for finding the name of whoever programed it. For any real problems call ETC tech support, even at 6 pm before the show!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

The good news is that you have a great system with legendary support. ETC Paradigm. The bad news is that almost anything can be done with those and I have no information on the exact settings.

Thanks, Rick. There is a name in that configuration screen and I know the company that installed this system. The config display says something was done on July 6, 2016. If I'm lucky, that "something" was a change that locked out control of the incandescents from the wall switch, regardless of the locked/unlocked setting (as I'd prefer that the incandescents never be on, other than by direction of the Innovator, as they burn out so quickly).

I'll call the installer. Maybe they have a cheat sheet on it. That's always a problem in these school theaters. They buy great stuff, but no one ever knows where the book on it is.

 

[John Palmer]

Hi Stevens,
Here is the number for ETC Tech Support.
800-688-4116
Save it in your phone. Tech support is available 24/7. After hours, leave a message. You will get a call back within 15 minutes. Honestly, it is better to call early in the troubleshooting process. If you fix it, they will be fine and might be able to provide some background. If you don't fix it, it will give you more time with them to help figure it out.
Tech support has an amazing amount of resources available to them.
I've made the call.
John

 

[RickR]

Lockouts and 'Overrides' can get complex. I know I've bumped something in a config that wasn't discovered until later. A common part of systems with Lockout is a Macro that runs in the night to unlock everything. I'm guessing you don't have that at the moment. Regardless the tech that did the work is probably your best call.

FYI Touchscreen controllers like that are usually intended to be used without paperwork or training. That's why you have some informational screens and long labels and such. Of course not every technician is an expert in user interface design. Asking for a few more hints to be included is not unreasonable.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'm not sure that is an ETC touch screen. There plates have rarefy had a bezel like that and I couldn't find an example with the elongated slot. I do not think it Unison - either Oldinson or Paradigm. Could be from the LMI heritage gear but didn't recall touch screen. Not first time Stevens has posted this on CB - and no one knew then. I'm certainly not sure.

Steven's - pull the plate and see if you can find a name on printed circuit card. Or call ETC - if they sold it they have a record of it - and maybe eliminate them or not with an easy step.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

I do believe it is an ETC device, based on the screen above. From what you guys have been able to tell me, I can see why there is no user's guide, in the conventional sense. Being a soft device, its interface is customized to a particular installation. Alas, while I am a real beginner in theater arts, I have been programming computers for over 40 years, and can say with some confidence that this particular interface does not qualify as "self documenting."

Fact is, that's not because it's hard to infer what its various menus and buttons are likely to do. Rather, that's because they don't seem to do what it is easy to infer that they will. The one big lock/unlock button ought to do just what it says, but it only locks and unlocks the fluorescent wall controls (even though the indicator LEDs for each are red in the "unlocked" state, and green in the "locked" state). I will call the company that installed it ("Artistic Concepts Group"), and see if they know what's going on.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The program is built for each system. Someone chose those screen layouts, what buttons, what labels, locking, basically every aspect. They will have a copy at ETC. A good trained tech (with this generation of software) can change anything.

I spend a lot of time laying these out and working with technician, and going over with users, the look and function of each screen. Just did that on a new school yesterday. On non-consultant projects, the technician makes it up.

The biggest problem may be that iirc, early versions of the processor used 3.5" disks. Oh my.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

The biggest problem may be that iirc, early versions of the processor used 3.5" disks. Oh my.

Well, so does our Innovator, so I'm used to that.

After yesterday's show wrapped, I brought the diskettes home. My fourteen-year-old son saw them on the dining room table, stopped dead in his tracks, pointed at them and, with a horrified look on his face said, "Dad! What is that ?!?"

Apparently, technology from the '80s upsets him.

I'll contact both ETC and ACG about the touch panel. My big concern is not so much how it works, but why the lock/unlock button no longer unlocks the incandescents. Somebody changed it, and no one at the school seems to know why. This is going to be a bigger issue than it might appear, as teachers use the accordian-pleat room dividers to turn that theater into a pair of classrooms on most days, and the teachers hate the fluorescents, so they always want to turn on the incandescents. Now, as it is at the moment, they can't turn them on with the wall switch anymore, which is what they had been doing. I'm fine with that, as I would prefer they not turn on the incandescents (since they burn out quickly and we need them for shows). But, the teachers also know the incandescents can be controlled from the Innovator, which they are aware of, but don't know how to use. This is likely going to have them asking the music teacher (who knows enough about the Innovator to know how to raise and lower the incandescents with it) to turn the lights on and off for them all the time, which she has already told me she is going to be annoyed by. My suggestion was the feign ignorance, but she feels they won't believe her. Another option, of course, is for me to configure the Innovator so that it won't run the house lights anymore (configuring it back when we actually need it to).

Oh, well. That's a local problem, but I do want to know who changed the set-up, and why. At a minimum, I need to know who to blame, as, right now, a lot of people in that school think that if anything changes with the lighting system, it must be my fault, as no one else knows how it works. In this case, that includes me!

 

[derekleffew]

My fourteen-year-old son saw them on the dining room table, stopped dead in his tracks, pointed at them and, with a horrified look on his face said, "Dad! What is that ?!?"

Apparently, technology from the '80s upsets him.

Why can't they be like weee were, perfect in ev'ry way? ... What's the matter with kids too--daaaaay?

Me? I think I trust the 3.5" floppy more than I trust a thumb drive. For peace of mind, one still needs at least two, and floppies are (were?) less expensive. Stores easier also.

... and the teachers hate the fluorescents, so they always want to turn on the incandescents. ... (since they burn out quickly and we need them for shows). ...

A possible solution, provided one can tolerate slightly less illumination, is to profile the dimmer, either through the Paradigm software or preferably at the CEM, to output less than full voltage at 100%.
At 95% voltage, lamp life will be a little less than twice as long (195% life, but but 84% less output).
At 90% voltage, lamp life will be a little less than four times as long (393% life, but 70% less output).

And/or convince the (I assume custodians) to use 130V long-life bulbs if available.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

A possible solution, provided one can tolerate slightly less illumination, is to profile the dimmer, either through the Paradigm software or preferably at the CEM, to output less than full voltage at 100%.

Hey, I think you just explained something I've been curious about for months: back when the wall switch was still able to control the incandescents, it often seemed to me that they never got as bright as when the console took them to 100%. It appears someone took your good advice, in advance. (But thanks for passing that tip along, as now I can use it in the future.)

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I thought 3.5 disks were 90s or later and in the 80s we had the 8+" and 5.25". Maybe she should see a slide rule, though it might be too traumatic.

 

[sk8rsdad]

Me? I think I trust the 3.5" floppy more than I trust a thumb drive. For peace of mind, one still needs at least two, and floppies are (were?) less expensive. Stores easier also.

The cost per GB of a 3.5" floppy would have been about $400 in 1984 dollars or about $935 today. Some quick math on Amazon without looking for the lowest cost suggests a USB flash drive can be had for about $0.60 per GB. Indexing 1GB of data in 1984 would have been a real challenge.

FWIW, USB flash drives are also obsolete for most consumers these days thanks to online storage and improvements in wireless data transfer rates.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

Maybe he should see a slide rule, though it might be too traumatic.

Heh. I majored in physics, in the late '70s. Calculators had just become the norm, but we used slide-rules for a couple more years. I still believe the slide-rule should be a required skill for a physics student. It requires the practical application of numerical estimates, and can't be used without the ability to maintain decimal orders of magnitude in your head. (Also, it demonstrates an otherwise almost unbelievable attribute of logarithms, which I continue to believe is pretty cool.)

 

[RickR]

If you can talk to the tech then calling ETC is not necessary. Ask about instructions they were given. Too often it's none at all, as Bill says, and sometimes it's from admin or engineers that don't understand theaters at all. I still thinks it's an "oops" but you never know.

The system can manage priority between internal settings and external DMX. A programming recommendation has changed in the last few years. Putting a selector button on the screen is now recommended, due to systems not always rebooting as expected. Default is to merge signals so the highest level for any dimmer wins. So if you turn everything off at the screen, you should have full control at the console. Given the age of the system that's probably what's going on, but one thing the tech might have done is update the firmware, which leaves many possibilities for something to go sideways.

I wouldn't be surprised if an Admin declared that teachers shouldn't use the incandescents, so the change was to disable the switch. You don't want to be in the middle of that battle!

Note the screen with preset buttons. Are they being used? It's amazing how often they aren't. They are a good way to keep teachers off the console. Record several typical looks there and be everyone's friend.

I was laying out and programming Unison systems when the new "Paradigm" version came out in 2009. Touchscreens were like that until 2012 or so. Other clues are color on screen and that config screen. USB and SD cards as well as full network, no floppy disks thank goodness! I'm sure we'll be using some form of portable device until the internet is fully secure.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

So if you turn everything off at the screen, you should have full control at the console.

Yup, that's the situation.

I wouldn't be surprised if an Admin declared that teachers shouldn't use the incandescents, so the change was to disable the switch.

That's my theory, too. What's more, it may have come from Central Command, as it turns out that the entire county school system has contracted with ACG to manage all of this stuff. It's possible ACG took the initiative and suggested disabling the incandescents at the wall. If that suggestion was accepted, ACG probably just went ahead and made the change at every school, I'm guessing without telling anyone. Next time I'm in another school, and can try the wall switch, I'll find out.

You don't want to be in the middle of that battle!

Brother, do I hear that !

Note the screen with preset buttons. Are they being used? It's amazing how often they aren't.

Let me see if there is an emoticon in this forum for how that makes me feel...

Yeah, this one is close:

There's also this one:

No, they are not in use. At least, when I poked them, nothing happened. It's a small part of a much, much larger source of grief for me. See, pretty much all the middle schools in this county (fifteen of them) have identical theaters. Each one has a house electric and two or three stage electrics, with plenty of instruments and gels. There are 48 DMX 512 dimmers that control all those instruments as well as the house incandescents in nine groups. Each has an Innovator 24/48. Each is fully wired with XLR jacks everywhere you could want them. They all have a stereo speaker cluster hung from the ceiling over center stage, just in front of the proscenium. Those are driven by 400-watt amplifiers in a neat rack system in the stage-left wing, which also has a 24-channel mixer in it (with said rack being close to the touch-screen). Because a complex show calls for a sound board in the audience seating, most of the schools have a special AC circuit run from the same line that drives the rack mixer and amp to a socket on the wall, so the mixer in the audience is on the same circuit to help with hum. They all have that touch-screen that this discussion is about, too. Yes, they are all very nicely equipped to teach theater arts, both dramatic and technical, and to support some serious performances.

And no one knows how to use any of this stuff.

You guys may remember all the help I received here, some months ago, when I ran the lights for their "Aladdin Jr" production. Well, the same set of cues was still in the Innovator when I showed up to help with "Guys & Dolls Jr." The school system clearly spent thousands and thousands of dollars on all this, and clearly got some very good quality, very capable equipment for that money. But nothing much has ever come of it.

They are a good way to keep teachers off the console. Record several typical looks there and be everyone's friend.

The music director (closest thing they've got to a drama department head) has expressed some interest in that, but is understandably wary of becoming the unofficial "theater lighting expert." For my own part, I just want to get out of this alive. That is, everyone now knows that I'm the only person who ever figured this machine out (and they are probably vastly overestimating how much I have really mastered about it). Thus, when something departs from expectations, they think of me first. If I can't get it back to the way it was, they will (again, understandly) most likely end up thinking it is my fault. That's why I'd like to get to the bottom of it and find out what was changed and why, so I can, uh... assign the responsibility where it belongs.

Meanwhile, when they do use the Innovator for anything when I'm not there, they do it by the kids slamming the faders back and forth for the individual dimmers. The kids run the "cues" by working in pairs, mostly from memory, and manually setting them one by one (or, sometimes, they hit the "Black Out" button). This is taking its toll on the console. More and more of the faders are getting scratchy. A few of them have bent sliders (is that the right word for the little plastic thing you actually move?). Those emoticons above do not come close to how this all makes me feel. I mean, these are kids who find Pokémon Go trivial to comprehend. I'm sure they could handle some lighting basics and make much fuller use of all this wonderful equipment, if only anyone on staff could give them just a wee bit of guidance.

I'm told that, in the high schools, it's a completely different story. They do have actual drama teachers and they do actually teach the students how the tech works. Alas, what this probably means is that it was simply a bad decision to equip the middle schools this well. But, you know how it goes: every time we build another school (here in Loudoun, "the fastest growing county in America," we build middle schools at an amazing rate), if anyone suggests that, just maybe, we don't need every last single thing the previous school paid for, there is a measurable risk of a popular uprising. So I guess we'll just keep doing it, not using the stuff, and watching it crumble into junk over the course of a decade or two.

The bright side of this is, again, I'm learning a great deal, much of which is clearly portable to other venues. In fact, I got asked to do another community company's lights for them this fall. The more I know, the better I'll be at this stuff. Can't complain about that!

 

[JonCarter]

"I thought 3.5 disks were 90s or later and in the 80s we had the 8+" and 5.25". Maybe she should see a slide rule, though it might be too traumatic."

Bill, I still USE my slide rule. Its batteries never die. And I have 8" floppies in my files. And those are newer than may PAPER cue sheets!

 

[RickR]

@Stevens R. Miller If it helps, know that you are not alone.

It might help if you leave things in 'simple mode' and well labeled. Maybe even right that 'user manual' for exactly how things work. Heck sounds like it should be published in bulk! (no beer emoji)