# Do you prefer Martin or High End for intels?

## Which brand to you prefer?

• ### High End

• Total voters
138

#### soundman1024

##### Active Member
Of these two brands which do you prefer and why?

Myself I like High End stuff because it doesn't fall apart. I already leaned to High End over Martin, but this weekend made my decision. We had the plastic cover on a Mac500 fall from the catwalk and shatter on the floor below. Good thing no one was in the auditorium. But seriously don't you think it shouldn't be possible for a PROPERLY secured cover to fall like that. I don't think I would ever recomment a Martin product, or at least a lighting fixture to someone for that reason, maybe a Mac2000 because alot of people use them, but since I have no experience with one I probably wouldn't. Anyway just me trying to make an excuse to hollar about my dislike for Martin lights. Hopefully I'm not alone in not liking them too much, but maybe I am.

#### techieman33

##### Well-Known Member
i see a lot of martin gear on the road, and i have never heard of anything like that happening. They seem to hold up pretty well on the road, so in a more permanent install, like a theater i would think they would hold up well.

#### zackw250

##### Active Member
I lean toward High End as well, especially there studio spot & color lines.

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
I use both. And neither has ever had a failure like you described. Also, it depends on what I'm doing with them. The only thing I don't like about the Mac 250 range is the colors. I prefer the StudioSpot colors so if I'm doing certain kinds of bands I'll use SS instead of Macs. But the newer Entour/Krypton are way faster than most HES products so if I need movement speed, I'm going with Macs every time. Even the Mac 550 is faster than the SS 575. The X-spot is crap compared to the M2K performance. But the old Technobeam is far better than the Martin 918, IMO. But for certain things I will use GLP Patend 1200. Because I can get a good beam on things in shaded daylight, even better than a M2K or X-spot.

Again, no light is best for everything.

#### soundman1024

##### Active Member
here is the thing

They were permanent installiation. They have sat on the catwalk for a few years now, a couple of months back one of the focus tubes literally fell apart. Another has had a prism that never worked in tge first place. I really don't understand it. We don't mistreat them or anything, they sat up there for years without being touched other than a bulb change. Now they spend more time down in the amp room or the shop than they do on the catwalk. Granted we have had a few High End problems, but out of the 8 High End [2 Studio Color 575, 4 TechnoBeams [2 with Iris], and 2 Trackspots, and the 4 Martin fixtures we have the Martins have needed more repair and we have had the HES gear longer. It makes me wonder if they get abused, but they really don't. Anyway just sharing my experiences. I've heard rumor of Xspots or Mac2000s coming soon. Either one would be nice.

#### soundman

##### Well-Known Member
Not haven used either other than putting them in or taking them out of a raod case I can't judge. But when I am doing visulations I tend to have mac rigs so I guess Im a martin fanboy. Granted nothing ever breaks in visulations so I can't judge on that. My friend has complents about the heatsink on the back of some HE gear, thinks they should just put another fan in and be done with it.

#### ccfan213

##### Active Member
if you buy me one of each to experiment with i will let you know ;-) i have heard good things about both though and have never really heard of any problems like the ones you were having with the martins, but i have never used either.

#### digitaltec

##### Active Member

You say a plastic cover fell off, was the cover safety tied to the base or did one of the clips fail?

You say that your movers have sat on the catwalk untouched. Does that mean they are not used often or that you never move then from where they are located.

#### soundman1024

##### Active Member
i know

I know what I am saying sounds ridiculous, and I didn't believe it till I saw the broken case myself since I wasn't there. What came off was the casing around the yoke where the bulb and all the colors/gobos all that reside. When I say not touched I mean not moved for years and not used but a couple of times a week for 5 hours max per use. Most of the time they were hooked up to an ETC Express if that makes any difference. I can get my crappy camera out and get a picture of the case, it is 3 or 4 pieces now though so it is not that much to see.

#### digitaltec

##### Active Member
the cover for the fixture should have a safety cable on it which is included in the fixture. So for the cover to fall off, only leads me to beleive that the safety was not connected.

In terms of not using them often and you saying that parts are starting to go on the fixtures, I would try to at least run them through a full cycle at least once a week to keep the parts moving. just like any moving part, if you let it sit and not be active it will get "rusty". Also, moving lights to break and the parts do get old and need to be replaced. I can go into more detail on this if you would like.

What fixtures are you using? I would like to see pictures of the case if you get a chance. I have connections at Martin and if it's acually a fixture malfuntion, I might be able to see what I can in getting a replacement.

#### techieman33

##### Well-Known Member
well, if they're not "touched", it might just be a matinence issue, they need to be looked at, and maintained.

#### soundman1024

##### Active Member
I'm not the LD so I'm really out of place posting about this whole happening but I though I would anyway. I should be able to get a picture tomorrow if I remember the camera. As far as a safety I don't think it had a safety to begin with. It had just gotten back from the shop anyway so they should have put it on. From what I know about intels it doesn't sound right for the casing to fall off, but it definately happened and the naked Martin proves it.

As far as matinence they were run for a couple of hours at a time a couple of times a week for church services. I don't konw how often they got dusted but they probably needed it more. It just seems like the High End stuff has held up better. It is older, gets moved around more, gets used less and still works fine. Anything that moves around needs car though and Martin probably makes a good product but these 4 fixtures haven't proved that to me.

#### digitaltec

##### Active Member
I tend to do a full cleaning of fixtures ever 6 months or so. This usually consists of taking apart the entire fixture from top to botom. It's a lengthy process that take 1-3 hours per fixture. But, I tend to see that it not only improves the proformance of the fixture but also I dont see and many malfunctions as when a fixture goes un maintained.

#### zackw250

##### Active Member
I agree with the previous post, doing a thurough cleaning of moving fixtures every six months really helps prolong the life of your movers. Plus, its a great learning experience. By opening them up and getting in there to clean you can learn alot of how they actually work. I thought that replacing my gobo wheels with custom gobos was going to be a death warrent, but after cleaning the fixtures a couple times I am comfortable working in there, and it was no issue at all replacing the wheels. Plus it helps to know whats going on inside when something breaks and your out of warrenty & \$.

#### RonaldBeal

##### Well-Known Member
Both and then some

I've toured with both brands as well as others. There was a time (Mid 90's) when Martin gear was some of the worst on the planet. They are a lot better these days. Most of the tours I do have 100+ moving lights. No brand has stood out as particularly better or worse than others recently. Some days I get great tech support from the mfgs, some days it's terrible.
My current choice of fixtures:
Big fixtures Vari-Lite VL3000 Spot, and Martin Mac 2000 wash
Small Fixtures: Vari-Lite VL-2500Spot, and High End Studiocolor 575
Scanners: Highend Cyberlights and Technobeams
Profile fixtures: Vari-Lite VL1000s (Tungsten or arc depending on application)
Hope this helps

#### avkid

##### Not a New User
Fight Leukemia
by a couple of years do you mean 2 or more? If you do not maintain it, it will fall apart! That goes for eveything,including flashlights and wrenches.

#### Scooter

##### Member
I voted High End because i think there a lot easier to use and run.

#### Les

##### Well-Known Member
You mentioned that they had just come back from the shop. Is it possible that they weren't reassembled correctly? Sounds like as far as your Martin gear goes, you just ended up with a bunch of lemons. I've never even heard of this major of a failure in a Chauvet or Elation fixture.

#### Inaki2

##### Active Member
OK, somewhat biased since I used to work for Martin. Still, I've had MAC500 survive an 18 feet fall onto concrete, and I had MAC1200 totally crap oout on me. I also had a Studio Spot catch on fire.
All equipment is prone to failure, and both brand have pros and cons. I love the gobos and lenses on HES, but an XSpot (like a MAC2k) has 38 control channels! So they're a pain to use.
I've used both, I'll take a Cyber over any mirror Martin does, but the MAC600, 300 and 2K are my favs. The new 250s are pretty darn good also.

#### soundman1024

##### Active Member
I never did get a picture before the broken portion was tossed before I remembered the camera. There is potential for it to have been incorrectly assembled from the shop. As for some sort of security mechanism I didn't see one. We only have 2 hanging right now, and 2 sitting in the amp room. I looked on the one that is missing a cover and I did not see anything that looked like it would secure it on in the event of what happened [cord, rope, anything of that nature]. Anyway I would guess that they are older Martin fixtures. Early 2000s at the newest. We bought 2 used and 2 new, but none of them are too good. Anyway we are going to replace all intels soon in the main auditorium. From my understanding we are going to 8 Studio Spot CMYs and 2 Technobeams. Could replace the technos with cybers, I don't know what the plan is. I've heard a hog 1000 being thrown around too. I doubt I will know till our LD asks for my help hanging some lights. I've also heard him talk about Studio Beams. It could be a little while but I doubt it will be over 6 months. Anyway if there are any more questions I'll try to answer them. To my knowledge maintence hasn't really happend for them, but I could be wrong. They got blown out when they were down always, and one or 2 times when they were up. We did blow out the youth intels a few weeks ago, but the Martins most likely just got bulb changes otherwise. Part of the reason is most likely that you have to put the lift on a lift to get to them unless you want to hang off the catwalk with someone holding you, or without if there isn't anyone. I've only done it without. Some TLC most likely would have done them good, but they have been crap since we got them I think. Like I said one of them never worked right to begin with.