dont let junior techies near a sound desk
- Thread starterplug_in_baby
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propmonkey
Well-Known Member
Q: why do sound guys only count to 2?
A: if they could count any higher they would be the lighting guy.
A: if they could count any higher they would be the lighting guy.
Ok this is goint to be way off topic...but have you ever noticed that sound people seem to have a lot of resentment for lighting people, and sometimes vice versa? I do both, so I have nothing against either. But I have noticed a lot of sound people really dislike lighting people. Maybe it's just me.
And BTW, sound people only count to 2 because on 3 you have to lift something.
And BTW, sound people only count to 2 because on 3 you have to lift something.
My theory is that, in my opinion, lighting is less stressfull than doing sound. I'm not saying that lighting is easy...but as a sound guy as well, I know how high stress sound can be. Although keep in mind I'm talking about concerts here....not theater. With live sound you gotta deal with bitchy musicians, and the usual know-it-all fans who insist on telling you how to mix....who are usually either drunk, or the parents of that same shitty musician who's turning your mix into nothing but out of tune guitar. Plus during changeovers lighting guys can usually go take a break for a minute..get something to eat/drink. When you're doing sound...if it's a small enough production you end up changing over the stage as well, so you don't really get a break ever. Of course, if you're like me you know how to sneak out in the middle of a song once everything is dialed in.
I don't think that lights are in first and out last would have much to do with why sound people dislike lighting people. On any show where you have a lot of gear to move in/out in not a lot of time, it's usually better to be out of there sooner anyways. The lighting people end up waiting on the sound people, and the band, to get the stage clear so they can do their work.
I don't know what you meant by sound guys doing more lighting on the push......but I'm assuming you mean the sound guys end up helping push around some of the lighting cases. Well, unless the two different crews are friends with each other, that's unlikely. I've learned to only move what you own, and never anything else. Occasionally I'll help a band member move a monster bass cab (one of those 10x12s) if they're struggling....but I'll never dissassemble a drumset for someone, and certainly never touch any of the sound gear. And I'm actually friends with the sound crew I usually work with. I don't even help coil their cables. They're not getting paid to move my stuff, and I'm not getting paid to move their stuff. And actually, that's the union mentality...a specific job for a specific crew. In some areas there is actually a difference between a stage hand and a truck loader. Loaders aren't allowed to push cases or help set up, and stage hands aren't allowed to load/unload a truck.
I don't think that lights are in first and out last would have much to do with why sound people dislike lighting people. On any show where you have a lot of gear to move in/out in not a lot of time, it's usually better to be out of there sooner anyways. The lighting people end up waiting on the sound people, and the band, to get the stage clear so they can do their work.
I don't know what you meant by sound guys doing more lighting on the push......but I'm assuming you mean the sound guys end up helping push around some of the lighting cases. Well, unless the two different crews are friends with each other, that's unlikely. I've learned to only move what you own, and never anything else. Occasionally I'll help a band member move a monster bass cab (one of those 10x12s) if they're struggling....but I'll never dissassemble a drumset for someone, and certainly never touch any of the sound gear. And I'm actually friends with the sound crew I usually work with. I don't even help coil their cables. They're not getting paid to move my stuff, and I'm not getting paid to move their stuff. And actually, that's the union mentality...a specific job for a specific crew. In some areas there is actually a difference between a stage hand and a truck loader. Loaders aren't allowed to push cases or help set up, and stage hands aren't allowed to load/unload a truck.
When I say "push" I mean moving all the equipment into and out of the venue. Where I work, we do both sound and lighting. Everybody pushes cases in (we don't carry nothing!) and there's usually a manager orchestrating what goes where. Then the lighting guys start hanging motors and assembling trussing. Since there's not enough room to do both, the sound guys can't do much except put the FOH board and effects together and they're usually are standing around or doing grunt type stuff like pulling soco for us and moving dead cases. When we're done the sound guys start with speakers, amps, backline, monitor mix, etc. The lighting techs clean up and do grunt stuff for the sound guys while I start programming.
Fortunately, the people I work with work well together. We goof on each other a lot, but nobody gets really nasty.
Fortunately, the people I work with work well together. We goof on each other a lot, but nobody gets really nasty.
plug_in_baby
Member
len said:
no you mis understood me, i'm a lighitng tech, i mean i find it easy, i find sound difficult, i mean i an run a concert and stuff but i cant get it to sound any good.
Dan-Greaves
Member
Hey, I'm a junior and I don't have a clue about lighting or sound yet but everyone needs to start somewhere! I think that technical theater is relly cool and I want to have a job in it when I'm older and obviously you like it to and I think that it's really horible that you booby trap the boards. How are they ever going to get better like that! 
i feel that lighting is much easier during the show, especially if you have your cues programmed and are just hitting the "go" button and sound is much harder during the show, but prior to the show, sound takes a couple of hours tops to set up, sound check, mic all performers and get everything ready, but we can be hanging and focusing lights and programming cues for a week. so in the end i think they balance out to be a somewhat similar amount of work but at different times.
who_touched_the_patch
Member
zac850 said:
Sorry to reach so far back into the conversation, but zac has a great point. My theatre company currently enrols about 450 kids in drama classes, and has recently started teaching technical classes for about 60 kids.
All of the teachers have at least a CerIII in some form of Technical Theatre, and have a few years of experience under their belts.
We find that the best way of teaching these guys how to run a show is to do a sort of mentor/student type of thing. It means that you use about twice the amount of techies on a show, but it's well worth it for the experience that these kids get.
Its only been on about six or seven occasiones in the 18 months we've been running the course (equates to about 9 shows) that a senior has had to step in and fix something. (Of course, we dont give them jobs like SM or LD.)
They are a wonderfully competent bunch, and the best thing is that they know that if they stuff up, someone s right behind them to fix the problem and clean up after them.
I agree they need hands on to learn but put a teaching program in place so you know what they know. I wouldn't booby trap a board before a show in case they can't fix it in time and a genuine problem comes up.
As part of their training once you have taught them the basics then I would set up a test for them, on a training day, where you have caused problems on the sound system. But you tell them you have done it so they can switch into fault finding mode and think things out without there being time pressure.
As part of their training once you have taught them the basics then I would set up a test for them, on a training day, where you have caused problems on the sound system. But you tell them you have done it so they can switch into fault finding mode and think things out without there being time pressure.
Doing a "Test" of some sorts during non-essential times is a good way to learn things on the fly...booby trapping the board, amps, whatever, is however not a very cool way to teach someone a lesson. If they mess something up for the first time, you say something to resolve the issue, teach them the proper way of doing things, and move on. If they continue to do the same thing over and over, then they should be disciplined or removed. If somebody that knew audio better than you came in and "booby trapped" your board, to teach you a lesson...would you be happy?
As far as the lighting guys hating the sound guys...I don't personally have a problem with our light guys, because we've worked together for so long. But, most of the animosity I've seen in other venues, is because of one being in the others way...or equipment being in the way. - Jeff
As far as the lighting guys hating the sound guys...I don't personally have a problem with our light guys, because we've worked together for so long. But, most of the animosity I've seen in other venues, is because of one being in the others way...or equipment being in the way. - Jeff
moderately_clueless
Member
Okay, I'm a senior. And I'm in charge of a fair amount of all the tech stuff in my school. But I'm in a similar boat to a few people on here. I have never been formally taught anything about sound. The seniors who taught me didn't know much more than the basic sliders and gain. Due to this, I've had to figure it all out. And I'm absolutely positive that some of my methods or ideas are totally wrong. It would be beyond egotistical to say that I or any other high school tech knows everything about sound. I may know more than most in my theatre, but I have as much to learn as they do.
So for one, boobytrapping is probably one of the more obnoxious things you could possibly do. It's a powertrip and it keeps everyone else from using the board. Not only does it disable them from learning, but if anyone but you has to use the sound board, it's impossible. This is one of the huge reasons I hate high school theatre. The egoes are huge and there is such competition for power, when really, none of us actually know that much. So when I have to run a show or an assembly in an hour and another senior has completely disabled the board just for his own good, it's not only immature, but detrimental to the program as a whole. I shouldn't have to waste half an hour finding all the things other people have intentionally screwed up when I could be checking levels and organizing the show. It's immature, it's detrimental and it creates some real animosity between you and everyone else. Please, tell me how that helps anyone.
Moving on from my rant, in place of kicking them out, teach them. Tech theatre is different from most education in that experience is really the only way. There aren't many books that will tell you how to EQ a space, how to properly wire/run a sound board, or what the hell +4dbu or -10dv mean. And if there are, please let me know, educate me. I could use some books like that. If these kids truly have no interest in the overall good of the performances, get rid of them. But if they have any interest or ambition whatsoever, teach them. It's unfair to expect them to magically know things just because you know them. High school theatre is for education. It won't ever sound perfect, but at the very least, someone other than you will be capable of running a show.
So for one, boobytrapping is probably one of the more obnoxious things you could possibly do. It's a powertrip and it keeps everyone else from using the board. Not only does it disable them from learning, but if anyone but you has to use the sound board, it's impossible. This is one of the huge reasons I hate high school theatre. The egoes are huge and there is such competition for power, when really, none of us actually know that much. So when I have to run a show or an assembly in an hour and another senior has completely disabled the board just for his own good, it's not only immature, but detrimental to the program as a whole. I shouldn't have to waste half an hour finding all the things other people have intentionally screwed up when I could be checking levels and organizing the show. It's immature, it's detrimental and it creates some real animosity between you and everyone else. Please, tell me how that helps anyone.
Moving on from my rant, in place of kicking them out, teach them. Tech theatre is different from most education in that experience is really the only way. There aren't many books that will tell you how to EQ a space, how to properly wire/run a sound board, or what the hell +4dbu or -10dv mean. And if there are, please let me know, educate me. I could use some books like that. If these kids truly have no interest in the overall good of the performances, get rid of them. But if they have any interest or ambition whatsoever, teach them. It's unfair to expect them to magically know things just because you know them. High school theatre is for education. It won't ever sound perfect, but at the very least, someone other than you will be capable of running a show.
moderately_clueless
Member
Oh, it definitely does happen. Absolutely infuriating when I leave to get dinner and come back to find my sound board rewired by another kid just because he felt like it and because he has it in his head that since he knows more than most, he has a right to sabotage them. So, then, with a half hour to curtain, I have to figure out a board that worked perfectly well to begin with. Guh.
Although, after working a few years in a high school, now that I have a job in a real theatre, it seems almost easy. Oh, tech is funny like that.
Although, after working a few years in a high school, now that I have a job in a real theatre, it seems almost easy. Oh, tech is funny like that.
TechiesDoItInTheDark
Member
I am positive that half of my junior techies think that they know way more about things than i do. it drives me insane! i have been here longer, i was personally taught by the master, i pretty much know what the hell's going on! so why do they feel the need to start messing with boards and things when i leave the room? i've come back countless times to find that the sound board is completely out of wack because they "thought" they could do a better job. i feel for you
Hughesie
Well-Known Member
that is completly true working your way up is a good thing, it means you get a chance to see what the job is like for other people, also if your not doing anything it is good to go up to them and ask is there anything i can do. i love when junior techs do that. also earn the trust of the operators if you spot something out of place tell them "i don't know if this is right but ....this happened or i can see.......which i don't think is right" someone like that making sure everything is ok is great
i don't booby trap the desk...we have a soundweb system (everything runs through it) and if i don't want them to use it i mute all the outputs which sounds mean but my school is completly covered in wireless access points so if they call me and say they need something i can open the program and enable it
No to drop into the middle of a discussion, but it is important the remember that more and more research shows that people actually learn by DOING, not watching, not reading, not listening, but doing. Not exactly the way most schools are run, but never the less is it is the primary way we has humans learn.
SO instead of trying to prevent it or take it as a sign that the other person does not think you know what you are doing, take it as a coaching experience, let the person do it with some watchful supervision, help them let the experiment.
Usually the behavior indicates that the person is really interested, is trying to learn but the learning environment is not working for THEM.
I know in the entertainment field there is the idea that you have to start at the bottom, do all the dirty jobs, work you way up. Fact is in business and life this is not really the case, most CEO's were never the janitor or the mail room clerk.
I have found that a blend of the "fun jobs" can be the motivator to help get the dirt jobs done, builds a much stronger bond, and encourages the person a lot more. I have found when you use the "give me a hand with.." for the fun jobs you will have no problem when you ask "give me a hand with" the not so fun jobs.
anyway I'll "duck now"
Sharyn
SO instead of trying to prevent it or take it as a sign that the other person does not think you know what you are doing, take it as a coaching experience, let the person do it with some watchful supervision, help them let the experiment.
Usually the behavior indicates that the person is really interested, is trying to learn but the learning environment is not working for THEM.
I know in the entertainment field there is the idea that you have to start at the bottom, do all the dirty jobs, work you way up. Fact is in business and life this is not really the case, most CEO's were never the janitor or the mail room clerk.
I have found that a blend of the "fun jobs" can be the motivator to help get the dirt jobs done, builds a much stronger bond, and encourages the person a lot more. I have found when you use the "give me a hand with.." for the fun jobs you will have no problem when you ask "give me a hand with" the not so fun jobs.
anyway I'll "duck now"
Sharyn
