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Doug Fleenor Architectural 10

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by renegadeblack, May 7, 2009.

  1. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    I have poured through the manual for this thing and can't seem to figure out a few things. Maybe someone on here (Doug?) will be able to help me out.

    1)Do you have to set all of the presets on every station or do they all mirror the master station?

    2)How do you wire in multiple stations? I have looked at the wiring diagram on the website, but I'm just not getting it. Do you only take one wire from the DMX of the lighting console and put that into the master station and then pass it down, or is there some way to pass all of the 3 wires through that I'm just not seeing?

    I'm shopping for some new ones because my current ones just shat themselves yesterday. I was looking for "dmx entry buttons" on google, and all that it came back with was me asking about something on my current system on here... Thanks for the help google!
     
  2. jxgriffi

    jxgriffi Active Member

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    Each Preset-10 must be built accordingly....so you will have to program all of them.

    For wiring, see if this helps....

    DMX from Lighting console into MASTER P-10 (Only 3 wires used). Local to the MASTER P-10, power for the P-10 (doorbell transformer, wall wart, etc.).

    To the NEXT P-10 (SLAVE), you need to run DMX (Belden 9829) AND 2 16awg wires. This gets DMX to the slave and power to the slave. The other choice is to again, power the SLAVE locally and then you would only from the 9829.

    The wall stations run in series...so you have to go through ALL of them BEFORE you get to the dimmers. The last P-10 to the dimmer rack only needs the 9829.

    Does that help???
     
  3. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    I think that helps, the part that I'm confused about is how I'm supposed to pass it from one to the other? Do I just put all the wires in the same spot? Im going to try a diagram (I only show three pins for DMX because that's all that's neccesary, I also don't show power because I know how the passing of electricity works):


    DMX _ M _ S _ S _ S _ DMX
    from _ A _ L _ L _ L _ on
    board _ S _ A _ A _ A _ rack

    That doesn't look like it particularly helps. I'll try describing again. Do you just stick the DMX both going to and from in the same place? Let's try this, do I not need to have a splitter or some second set of terminals in order to daisy chain them?

    Sorry for the choppy wording, I'm doing a day of silence today and I can't think straight :)

    EDIT: Alternatively, would I be able to just use something like a bread board by the master station and then send the DMX and power to the P-10s that way? As long as they all get what they need, I assume that it works.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  4. epimetheus

    epimetheus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the DMX to and from the device will go on the same terminal. So on all the wall panels except the last one in the string, you'll have 2 wires on each of the DMX terminals.
     
  5. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    OK, that makes me feel better knowing that that's how it works.

    Anyone think that my breadboard idea would work? I believe it would but I just want to see if anyone agrees.
     
  6. jxgriffi

    jxgriffi Active Member

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    Probably not...because the DMX has to be in a chain in order to communicate with the dimmers at the end of the line. With the breadboard, you have no way to get "everything" back to the dimmers without a big combiner.

    Think about it this way....each of the P-10 wouldn't have the "return" to the dimmers if you use the breadboard, hence no way to trigger the dimmers.
     
  7. jxgriffi

    jxgriffi Active Member

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    Actually...the last one will have 2 wires on each terminal too. You need an "output" from the last one to the dimmers.
     
  8. epimetheus

    epimetheus Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on you're frame of reference. I was thinking the master panel would be connected to the dimmers. :) It actually doesn't matter where the dimmers are in the string, as long as they're in the string. DMX is an RS485 signal, and as such is a parallel connected protocol.
     
  9. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    I guess I learn something new everyday. I guess that means that I have no way of being able to avoid doing them absolutely in a chain. I'm glad that I now understand this whole thing about them going to the same terminal. I now understand how this works. I feel that I could probably install this myself. Now I remember reading that instead of using official belden cable for dmx, I can use CAT5. Would I also be able to use that for the power as well? It's rated for an average of 48v, so I would think that being as the entry buttons use 12v because they use a doorbell transformer, that'd work. My only question is how many watts one of these devices use because wikipedia says that power over ethernet (which is what I'm using as my basis for what's safe over CAT5) is capable of about 12 watts. I want to make sure that I'm not starting a fire, though I doubt that I would be.
     
  10. epimetheus

    epimetheus Well-Known Member

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    CAT5 is not a good idea for DMX as it is not shielded nor is the conductor size large enough, especially considering the long runs involved in most remote panel installations. The same can be said for power over CAT5 as well. It would be a good idea to go with separate cables for DMX and power, although you could run the power over the second pair in a 2 pair DMX cable (not recommended).
     
  11. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    I thought that CAT5 was approved for usage in DMX installations... I also know that it is approved for up to 48v. Is there something I'm missing?
     
  12. jxgriffi

    jxgriffi Active Member

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    Yes, the USITT Spec does list ethernet as an acceptable install cable for DMX. However, I wouldn't do Cat5. I would do Cat6 or higher.

    As far as voltage...NO don't do it! If you notice in the manual for the P-10, it specifically calls for 2-16AWG for power. While the ethernet is approved for up to 48v....it's the AMPERAGE that is needed that would fry the cable.

    So...yes, according to the specs, you can use ethernet (I just did a full system install based on ethernet for DMX). You have to be very careful with the terminations. I would get a different termination than just the screw terminals because the solid core is very fragile.
     
  13. renegadeblack

    renegadeblack Active Member

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    OK, I'm just so used to saying Cat5. So, Cat6 or higher, and it's absolutely necessary to use 16awg for power. That sounds easy enough.

    Thanks for your help everyone!
     

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