Dressing Cable?
- Thread starterderekleffew
- Start date
I'm in a suspension grid space, and just this year came up with leaving tie line on the pipes (2 lengths per 5' section), so that when we run cables, the tie line is already there. Its hard to describe textually, but the line is never untied from the pipe--the knot leaves plenty of tie line so you can just tie the cable on top of the tie line looped around the pipe.
I know I wasn't the first to think of it (it's surely even common practice in some spaces, probably especially those with battens. I've probably even read of it before, maybe even in this thread.), but, I mean, I love it and it's just so darned efficient.
I know I wasn't the first to think of it (it's surely even common practice in some spaces, probably especially those with battens. I've probably even read of it before, maybe even in this thread.), but, I mean, I love it and it's just so darned efficient.
marshmolly123
Member
Tie line, for sure. Gaff tape and electrical tape are way too permanent, not to mention wasteful and expensive. Zip ties sound doable for a more permanent rig, but at my high school theater, nothing's particularly permanent. Velcro ties sound confusing to me, overly complicated! I'll take good old fashioned tie line any day! It's quick, simple, cheap, and reuseable!
I have been trying to find a picture on the web of the ties we use but haven't had any luck, and can't remember the brand name. They are basically about 18" of sash cord with a plastic guy line cleat on one end. Wrap them around the cables and pipe twice, stuff the open end through the clip and tug tight to lock. Tug free to unlock.
tie line all the way, with one exception
on pre rigged pieces that tour, electrical tape -but only 3M 33+ anything else leaves gunk on the pipe/truss and cable.
I have always avoided zip ties, tie wraps, etc, as people end up getting cut on the sharp edge left when trimmed to length.
On the few occasions where tie wraps were absolutely necessary, it gets a couple wraps of 33+ over it to cover the sharp edge.
anyone who thinks im nuts, just wait until you slice the palm of your hand open on a trimmed zip tie while tipping up a loaded truss arch.
on pre rigged pieces that tour, electrical tape -but only 3M 33+ anything else leaves gunk on the pipe/truss and cable.
I have always avoided zip ties, tie wraps, etc, as people end up getting cut on the sharp edge left when trimmed to length.
On the few occasions where tie wraps were absolutely necessary, it gets a couple wraps of 33+ over it to cover the sharp edge.
anyone who thinks im nuts, just wait until you slice the palm of your hand open on a trimmed zip tie while tipping up a loaded truss arch.
I doubt anyone thinks you're nuts. I will only allow zip ties to be installed with the proper tool.
Zip Ties, Cable Ties & Cable Tie Guns
I think I own three, of various brands and qualities. Even the least expensive is better than diagonal cutters; or even worse, a multi-tool for cutting the tails.
I fall in the it depends category on this one.
On my electrics I usually use tie line unless, like my DMX runs the cable is likely to stay in place a year or more. Then I use zip ties.
Out in the amphitheatre, I use exclusively zip ties. The sun and the weather do bad things to tie line in the three or four months I have my cables attached to my lighting trusses.
When other groups use my facilities, they're free to use whatever method they like with the understanding that if they use tape, they will strike every piece. That said, I am perfectly willing to provide them with either tie line or zip ties from my Pageant stock, so most choose one of those two methods.
On my smaller stage, I use tie line exclusively.
On my electrics I usually use tie line unless, like my DMX runs the cable is likely to stay in place a year or more. Then I use zip ties.
Out in the amphitheatre, I use exclusively zip ties. The sun and the weather do bad things to tie line in the three or four months I have my cables attached to my lighting trusses.
When other groups use my facilities, they're free to use whatever method they like with the understanding that if they use tape, they will strike every piece. That said, I am perfectly willing to provide them with either tie line or zip ties from my Pageant stock, so most choose one of those two methods.
On my smaller stage, I use tie line exclusively.
achstechdirector
Active Member
I use tie line for truss, gaff tape on ground, and zipties/e tape for anything that the audience can see. Most of the lines the audience can see on truss are permanent so it is easier. One thing I hate, a local community theatre unplugs their unused instruments but leaves them hung, their cord hangs down (EVEN IN THE HOUSE) and the ceilings are so low that (to me) the cords are distracting UGG I hate lazy people. Tie them up or something.
Necro-posting because I finally got the name and found an image of the ties we use. The street price is significantly less than MSRP:
Matthews Matth-Ties
Batten, truss or anything that isn't on the floor gets tieline. I do a many touring groups that use tieline in boatloads and then discarrds it. I will collect it after loadout. I'm a clove, bow tie guy myself. I use taughtline hitches to adjust sound clusters. Cloves with halves to tie cable back. I use theatre ties to hand draps. I have never seen a need to use mechanical devices to asist me in knot tieing.
Tying cable off
There is something that I am wondering about...
What is the preferred method of tying cable off a the end of a pipe/batten/electric? The couple ways that I have seen include:
What thoughts do you guys have? I've always wondered if I've been tying cable off wrong or not
There is something that I am wondering about...
What is the preferred method of tying cable off a the end of a pipe/batten/electric? The couple ways that I have seen include:
- tying cable with just tie line and running it off the pipe
- tying a half hitch in the cable at the end of the pipe, and tying tie line on the onstage side of the half hitch
- tying a half hitch in the cable at the end of the pipe, and tying tie line on BOTH sides of the half hitch
What thoughts do you guys have? I've always wondered if I've been tying cable off wrong or not
Re: Tying cable off
For me it depends on the cable. If it is a single piece of data or something small like that, I'll just use tie line. If it is a few pieces of 12/3 SO or a multi, I use the half-hitch and tie line method. If it is a whole bundle of multis or something of similar weight, I like to use a web cinched on the bundle and then clove-hitched to the pipe, and some tie line on the onstage side of the webbing, for good measure.
-Tim
For me it depends on the cable. If it is a single piece of data or something small like that, I'll just use tie line. If it is a few pieces of 12/3 SO or a multi, I use the half-hitch and tie line method. If it is a whole bundle of multis or something of similar weight, I like to use a web cinched on the bundle and then clove-hitched to the pipe, and some tie line on the onstage side of the webbing, for good measure.
-Tim
NevilleLighting
Active Member
Re: Tying cable off
I prefer your third method, with tie line on both sides. I prefer that the cable have the maximum amount of friction against the pipe to reduce slippage. I agree with Xander that it is a situational question.
Some things I keep in mind...
-The pick point offstage MUST be in line with the batten.
-The cable swag must be long enough to not pull the batten off center.
-The cable swag would ideally let the pipe come to the deck for lamp maintenance.
-The swag clears any moving scenery when the pipe is in its playing position.
-The cable swag should not clothesline any actors, crew or, most importantly, the guy that signs your check.
I prefer your third method, with tie line on both sides. I prefer that the cable have the maximum amount of friction against the pipe to reduce slippage. I agree with Xander that it is a situational question.
Some things I keep in mind...
-The pick point offstage MUST be in line with the batten.
-The cable swag must be long enough to not pull the batten off center.
-The cable swag would ideally let the pipe come to the deck for lamp maintenance.
-The swag clears any moving scenery when the pipe is in its playing position.
-The cable swag should not clothesline any actors, crew or, most importantly, the guy that signs your check.
Re: Tying cable off
Thanks guys for your input! I know that this seems like a trivial kind of thing to ask...but I have worked with people who have literally screamed at me for using a half hitch to tie cable off...ridiculous? Yes.
But now I have a related question...Is there an accepted method to tie cable off going to a pipe?
In my space, we have decks on either side of our stage where we run cable from our floor pockets up to various electrics. When I tie cable off to go out to an electric or from a floor pocket, I lower the cable down to the electric...and when there's enough slack, I pinch the cable to make a loop about 5 inches in diameter, and I tie the loop so that it goes around the midrail, and it's tied with tie line.
My biggest question is that is this going to hurt the cable in the long run? If it does, what other method should I use to tie my cables off to our decks?
Once again, Thanks guys
Thanks guys for your input! I know that this seems like a trivial kind of thing to ask...but I have worked with people who have literally screamed at me for using a half hitch to tie cable off...ridiculous? Yes.
But now I have a related question...Is there an accepted method to tie cable off going to a pipe?
In my space, we have decks on either side of our stage where we run cable from our floor pockets up to various electrics. When I tie cable off to go out to an electric or from a floor pocket, I lower the cable down to the electric...and when there's enough slack, I pinch the cable to make a loop about 5 inches in diameter, and I tie the loop so that it goes around the midrail, and it's tied with tie line.
My biggest question is that is this going to hurt the cable in the long run? If it does, what other method should I use to tie my cables off to our decks?
Once again, Thanks guys
JD
Well-Known Member
Re: Tying cable off
Sharp bends are a no-no. When you think of the structure inside a multi, you can see how a few conductors are pulled real tight. A 30 degree bend coming off a pipe is ok, but I see these 90's and I cringe. The problem gets worse the closer to the connector you get. I've seen Veam's* fail where the pins actually pull back out of the connector boot. 12/3 SO can take this much better, and data lines are not much of a problem, but the multis can acquire accumulative damage to the point where you may have dead circuits. Coming off a truss, I try to tie off the top frame a couple of feet in, then tie off the bottom at the end, breaking things up so there is 45 or less at each bend.
*= Older style, with the rubber boot inside.
Sharp bends are a no-no. When you think of the structure inside a multi, you can see how a few conductors are pulled real tight. A 30 degree bend coming off a pipe is ok, but I see these 90's and I cringe. The problem gets worse the closer to the connector you get. I've seen Veam's* fail where the pins actually pull back out of the connector boot. 12/3 SO can take this much better, and data lines are not much of a problem, but the multis can acquire accumulative damage to the point where you may have dead circuits. Coming off a truss, I try to tie off the top frame a couple of feet in, then tie off the bottom at the end, breaking things up so there is 45 or less at each bend.
*= Older style, with the rubber boot inside.
Re: Tying cable off
I either use tieline or spansets on a pick from a pipe. If I am picking a cable for a swag it is either a clove and a half or a spanset. If I am tieing along the pipe it straight tieline bows or E tape as per the show's wishes.
Just remember to never tie a knot with the wire itself.
I either use tieline or spansets on a pick from a pipe. If I am picking a cable for a swag it is either a clove and a half or a spanset. If I am tieing along the pipe it straight tieline bows or E tape as per the show's wishes.
Just remember to never tie a knot with the wire itself.
