Outboard Gear DSP choices

[orangecity]

I work at a moderately sized community theater that recently came upon a large amount of money. Earlier this year we upgraded our house sound console to an Allen and Heath ML5000 and love it. We have a smaller sound console that we leave behind the glass in the lightbooth for the small one man rentals.

The current system works but we have to re patch everything except our center main from one board to the other. We're looking at getting a DSP (or two) to first of all mix our two signals together, and provide some EQ as well. We also might be expanding in the next five years to include some small fill speakers in the back of the house, so a delay will also be good.

What have you guys used for DSP modules? Its a little daunting for me to go through and weed through all the different types. I'm more of the lighting guy here but the sound guy wouldn't be caught dead on an internet forum...

 

[gcpsoundlight]

I heard of a product called the mix switch - that might di it. It is very simple - 16 ins, 8 outs and a thumping big switch!

 

[museav]

I would typically start by first establishing the inputs and outputs for the DSP, both quantity and type (analog or digital, mic or line, etc.). Think of current use and potential future additions. That should define the physical I/O the DSP needs to accommodate. Then you can start getting into what processing, routing, mixing and so on that you want to incorporate. You may find some devices that are more limited in the processing and/or routing possible. Of course budget is usually a factor in this, lower cost DSP units are generally more limited in what they can do and the system configurations they can support.

At some point you need to think about who is going to program the DSP and perform any related system setup and tuning. You may find a DSP unit that has presets for your speakers and possibly the amps or you may end up having to work from scratch, so you might need some help.

It's probably also a good time to think about things like Assistive Listening Systems (ALS), overflow audio, backstage monitoring, etc. as the DSP may play a role in some of these. Some DSP units also make a good place to provide a triggered system mute if required for life safety, where a contact closure or opening from the life safety system mutes the sound system during emergencies.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Back again!

on the show i am doing at the moment, we are using a product call a "Sound Web" - when I go in tonight, I will get model numbers names etc. I can be controlled via a PC over RS232.

It has (I think) 8 ins and 8 outs in a full matrix, plus onboard EQ, Comp. and Verb, along with specials.

 

[Chris15]

Until you have defined what you need in the way of IO as Brad has described, it's pointless tossing around products...
BSS Soundweb London, Biamp AudiaFlex, Peavey Media Matrix, dbx Driverack, A&H iDR, Yamaha DME, are but some of the products that might accomplish the goal depending on things like I/O requirements, processing needed and budget...

 

[rwhealey]

Back again!

on the show i am doing at the moment, we are using a product call a "Sound Web" - when I go in tonight, I will get model numbers names etc. I can be controlled via a PC over RS232.

It has (I think) 8 ins and 8 outs in a full matrix, plus onboard EQ, Comp. and Verb, along with specials.

That's a BSS product. There's two versions - if it's green, it's a "Soundweb Original" and is known for reliability problems. If it's blue, it's a "Soundweb London" which is a mid-high end DSP that's pretty well regarded.

 

[orangecity]

Gotcha. Let me map this out and get back to you guys. I have gone through it in my head but it's now time to get it down on paper.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

That's a BSS product. There's two versions - if it's green, it's a "Soundweb Original" and is known for reliability problems. If it's blue, it's a "Soundweb London" which is a mid-high end DSP that's pretty well regarded.

Yep, its the green one.

 

[museav]

To take this a bit further, there are DSP devices that have a fixed number and type of inputs and outputs and there are modular devices that use a number of available input and output cards to put together different configurations. There are also devices that are standalone and those that can be networked or expanded via Cobranet, EtherSound, Dante or proprietary networks. So the physical I/O count and types can have a major bearing on what might be the most effective approach.

 

[orangecity]

Ok, here's what I've come up with. I'll try to make a single line diagram out when I get on a computer that has CAD. There's a total of 17 sources (16 line level, one mic level) that need to be messed with in some way.

I need a unit that can handle 9 inputs and 8 outs that has the ability to combine signal, put EQ in line, compression/gate, delay, and a crossover. This includes the mic level input (if we can. If that's not going to work we can figure something out for that). All I/O is analog.

The remaining 8 inputs only need to be combined into 4 outputs only. No other signal processing needed.

If you want me to explain the system out further I can. I'm finding it hard to come up with a good way to get it down on paper efficiently..ha.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[avkid]

I heard of a product called the mix switch - that might di it. It is very simple - 16 ins, 8 outs and a thumping big switch!

That is made by our friends at APB Dynasonics in Totowa, New Jersey.
APB-DynaSonics MixSwitch

 

[TimmyP1955]

What I'm getting from this is that you want a unit to select both which console is feeding the system, and which console is being fed by the mic lines. I would not do this. Why run the mic lines through electronics that will add nothing (other than hiss & hum). For the mic lines, just get a hardwired splitter (although you'd have to make sure that the unused mixer was still powered up owing). You can then use a mix-switch or a DSP for the system patching. If you need EQ +++, then a DSP. We use Rane RPM88s (in part because one can get a great deal on eBay).

 

[orangecity]

What I'm getting from this is that you want a unit to select both which console is feeding the system, and which console is being fed by the mic lines. I would not do this. Why run the mic lines through electronics that will add nothing (other than hiss & hum). For the mic lines, just get a hardwired splitter (although you'd have to make sure that the unused mixer was still powered up owing). You can then use a mix-switch or a DSP for the system patching. If you need EQ +++, then a DSP. We use Rane RPM88s (in part because one can get a great deal on eBay).

Not at all. We want something that will allow us to use either console, or a combination of both. We don't want to select one. Mic lines go through a hard patch bay. We can either plug mics into one board or the other, not both, and we don't want to change that. The one mic level signal is for a VOG mic in the light booth, to isolate it from the booth console.

 

[museav]

Perhaps it would make sense to list the logical inputs and outputs. For example, Input 1 is Console A Main Left Out (line level), Input B is Console A Main Right Line out (line level), Output 1 is Mixed Main Left Out High Pass/Mains (line level), Output 2 is Main Left Out Low Pass/Subs (line level) and so on.

It should be noted that 8x8 is a very common configuration for DSP units. Other 16 total I/O combination configurations, typically in sets of 4 inputs or outputs, such as 12x4 or 4x12 are also pretty common. There are some DSP devices where a single unit can handle more than 16 total inputs and outputs or that have input and output expanders available, but the choices are fewer and you typically pay for that added capability. The point being that if you need a 9 input and 8 output device then that is what you need and you may end up with some additional inputs, however if you could make do with an 8x8 device than that would likely open up more product options and/or reduce the cost.