Elation Artiste Mondrian

macsound

Well-Known Member
Partly because I don't have a ton of work and partly because I like to stay knowledgable about product that exists - I've been looking at Elation's lineup and this one really confused me.
The Elation Artiste Mondrain is a white LED source with R G B and C M Y glass filters. (maybe the other artistes too?)
How the heck does this work?
Has anyone used one and made specific color choices and see the advantage?

Data sheet and video stuff here:
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It's similar to old (and not-so-old) arc lamp movers: There's a really powerful LED engine -- 950 watts! -- that generates a fairly full spectrum; if memory serves, it utilizes phosphors similar to fluorescent tubes to generate a full spectrum of light. That then passes through a CMY engine not dissimilar to what VariLite and Martin use, plus it has a fixed color wheel for deep saturated colors, plus it has a CTO flag, plus plus plus it has some RGB LEDs to push the color even further ... so I've read.

I've used some of the non-Artiste Elation fixtures. The CMY color mixing is similar to, but at the same time very different than the Martin and VariLite engines. You can mix to the same colors, but fading from one color to another is a different experience. I always find the Elation optics a little off, mostly because they seem oriented toward the narrower end of beam widths -- zooming out will do some weird things to the color field, revealing it's not quite as flat as it seems to be.

Those are just my experiences. Best bet is always to arrange a live demonstration. For 16 grand, sure hope they're worth it!
 
@theatricalmatt It is actually 7 separate color flags - CMY/RGB/CTO - no RGB LEDs. I think they did this for a few reasons -
1) Red, green, and blue are notoriously bad in CMY color systems, and most fixtures with CMY systems have saturated colors as dedicated chips on the fixed color wheel - this 7 flag system allows you to fade seamlessly to a deep red that's actually a dedicated red dichroic. No flipping through the color wheel. This also allows them to not try to tune the CMY flags to make RGB, which some manufacturers have done to the detriment of the actual CMY colors (if the light boasts an amazing color mixed red, I probably won't like the magenta, the yellow, or both). I know I hate having to flip to the color wheel to a look, but I've done it when the CMY system isn't up to the task.
2) Pale colors and lighter midtones in the blue and red range are, in my experience with dozens of CMY lights, particularly hard to get, and pale greens can be almost impossible to get looking good. There are few CMY lights that I've used that make a satisfying peach color, for instance, since that involves the middle ranges of the magenta and yellow wheels that typically don't look as good and still suck a lot of output away - but I'll bet with this, dialing the red wheel in a bit and tinting towards yellow or magenta depending on what exact shade of peachy I'm looking for will yield a far better color and also be brighter than the same color mixed with CMY. Also, I'm sure there are some colors that are possible with this that wouldn't be possible with CMY.

Maybe @rsmentele knows the best video to show off this system in action? I'm not sure if Matthias Hinrichs is a member here but I would bet good money that he had a hand in creating this color system.
 
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1) Red, green, and blue are notoriously bad in CMY color systems, and most fixtures with CMY systems have saturated colors as dedicated chips on the fixed color wheel - this 7 flag system allows you to fade seamlessly to a deep red that's actually a dedicated red dichroic. No flipping through the color wheel. This also allows them to not try to tune the CMY flags to make RGB, which some manufacturers have done to the detriment of the actual CMY colors (if the light boasts an amazing color mixed red, I probably won't like the magenta, the yellow, or both). I know I hate having to flip to the color wheel to a look, but I've done it when the CMY system isn't up to the task.
2) Pale colors and lighter midtones in the blue and red range are, in my experience with dozens of CMY lights, particularly hard to get, and pale greens can be almost impossible to get looking good. There are few CMY lights that I've used that make a satisfying peach color, for instance, since that involves the middle ranges of the magenta and yellow wheels that typically don't look as good and still suck a lot of output away - but I'll bet with this, dialing the red wheel in a bit and tinting towards yellow or magenta depending on what exact shade of peachy I'm looking for will yield a far better color and also be brighter than the same color mixed with CMY. Also, I'm sure there are some colors that are possible with this that wouldn't be possible with CMY.
I dont think I could explain it much better than that! Mixing primaries with less glass allows for brighter output. You don't need to resort to the wheel and have a weird transition or have to blackout in the process.
As far as the statement of focal plane on the flags being an issue, the new Artiste products fix that as well. It was definitely taken into account when the products were being developed. So I think you will find it better than in the past.
This new color system was one of the big reasons that the Metropolitan Opera in NYC decided to purchase the Monet fixture over many others that were being considered. Here is what their resident LD, John Froelich had to say about why he liked the system:
“The SpectraColor system opens up a lot of possibilities from a creative standpoint, the ability to mix to super saturated colors without having to revert to the use of color chips is really advantageous. For example, I can shift from a realistic lighting state in one cue and then fade to really saturated theatrical state to emphasize a musical moment, mood or event onstage with the same lighting equipment. This is quite helpful in our repertory environment as we have more wide-ranging access to dramatic shifts without having to hang additional lighting equipment. The system also allows me access to subtle reds, blues and greens that are near impossible to mix with the primary Cyan, Magenta, Yellow mixing system. Having access to these types of colors without losing light output due to the heavy amount of colored glass in the lens assembly is quite a game changer.”

Matthias is going to chime in soon as well but I wanted to at least answer a couple of the questions brought up. In the end I think to really appreciate the system, you have to use it and see it in action. Like so many new technologies in our industry.

Unfortunately, I dont think we've taken the time to really make any videos about this technology specifically, but maybe I have something to work on now!
 
Unfortunately, I dont think we've taken the time to really make any videos about this technology specifically, but maybe I have something to work on now!

I think anyone who has heard Matthias talk about something he is passionate about wants a Matthias talks Spectracolor video.
 
I'd be very interested in how this works and also maybe a split video of what the color flags are doing on one half and what the light beam looks like on the other half. Sometimes it's part of my complex thought process to decide how to program based on knowing what's happening in the fixture. Even also doing a color picker on an MA and showing what the flags do as you scroll through the spectrum.

It's such an interesting concept to have both sets of colors to mix with, if you don't make the video, when we get to go out in the world, I'll end up renting one to play with even without a show!
I'm weird, I know.
 
The whole Artiste family confuses me. Why is there no comparison, like "This one is really bright, and this one over here has good CRI", and "These have rotating frames". Do they all have the same color systems?
 

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