I'm looking forward to using the Philips Selecon SPX. The perfect complement to my Uni-Pars and ENR dimmers. Metal is sooo over rated. As Dustin Hoffman was told in 1967: "One word--PLASTICS."
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End of the Leko
- Thread startership
- Start date
According to the Selecon website:
I would guess once it was released or certified in North America they will have 120v lamps available.
jmabray
Active Member
If they do that, make sure you get some funds back. Selecons are more expensive than source 4's and you should be saving yourself some money by doing the swap.
Compare and contrast the tale of the Leko to another industry "household name", Light Palette.
1979. Strand-Century Light Palette. Light Palette Two, Light Palette 3. 1990. Strand LightPalette90, 500 running "lightpalette"-brand software. 2006. Light Palette and Palette, both with prefixes and suffixes VL/Live/Sub/Preset/Basic/Classic/II (Horizon software on Strand hardware).
Improving a product and altering the name slightly is one thing. However, re-using a name, solely for its recognition-value and reputation; when the "new" bears little if any resemblance to the "original", is quite another.
To many people (albeit all of a certain age), this
This
How dare Philips/Strand/Horizon/Selecon/Genlyte/Vari*lite/ET/ColorKinetics besmirch the good name of a product we once held so near and dear in our hearts?
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I have the advantage in the latter being one I have experience with - or at least the Version III of it, and the rest the examples for me at least just words over my head.
Could be part of your point in what seems fair enough point... but I think instead it's the Leko name in question on the other hand. I can also operate a Q-File but doubt anyone is buying out entire companies so as to acquire a name and later bought out in re-using that name potentially a third time removed in question.
What's the status of the trademark name Leko' as a term more important than any other that can be bought and sold at this point.
Co
Could be part of your point in what seems fair enough point... but I think instead it's the Leko name in question on the other hand. I can also operate a Q-File but doubt anyone is buying out entire companies so as to acquire a name and later bought out in re-using that name potentially a third time removed in question.
What's the status of the trademark name Leko' as a term more important than any other that can be bought and sold at this point.
Co
DELO72
Well-Known Member
Drop one sometime. The one thing I hate about those fixtures is the cheap plastic body. I've had boom stands with Metal fixtures fall over and aside from a shutter getting bent there is no harm down. The Pacific 90 deg. that fell shattered with plastic/graphite pieces going everywhere. The weight is a benefit, I agree, but durability needs to be factored into everyone's calculations based on how and where they will be used.
Valid point Mark, as there will always be a give and take regardless of fixture composition. If I could find a full size, four door, powerful pickup truck that got 35+ MPG on or off the highway...
I need to determine which features are absolutely most important to me because I can't have it all. Wish I could, but not at this time-
I need to determine which features are absolutely most important to me because I can't have it all. Wish I could, but not at this time-
I would venture that in that past 18 years, the term "Leko", as used throughout the US of A, as a term for any and all brands of ellipsoidal spotlight, has gone by the wayside, as a new generation has "grown up" as it were, on the Source 4. I know that none of the 6 electricians that did summer lighting maintenance for me this year, the 2 oldest being early 30's, everyone else mid-20's had none of the olde timers recollection of that use of the Leko term, even though it was branded all over the lens barrels of the 90 some odd Strand-Century LekoLites they serviced.
The fact that Strand never capitalized on the name, by labeling the SL series as a new and improved Leko, allowed the name to fall out of use.
So be it
SB
The fact that Strand never capitalized on the name, by labeling the SL series as a new and improved Leko, allowed the name to fall out of use.
So be it
SB
Well said. S-4 on this website or at work also confirms such an opinion. Took a few shows of handing out ETC lamps before "professionals" in the industry in asking for ETC lamps would get the lamp they wanted. Education and training by the staff helps educate those that are more "in general" or if it ain't S-4 we have a closed mind in options.
Thanks. For my museum, I was very careful in term of "Leko" verses "Ellipsoidal" in naming what they did on their descriptions and lineage. Tough choice in now realizing the descrition of what one fixture to another in the above term is probably meaningless to others. And the new hires and other tech people just walk on without asking questions. Could care less about what's hanging above them at the time clock they punch into - this from 1916 to 1993 as they punch out for the day in a wealth of gear to wonder about. Such stuff I don't get - got a museum above the time clock... any questions? Nope.
Kind of amazed that from kids at work for the summer in going to college for theater lighting, to them at community college, to them that graduated etc. in them that want a career, yet to get only a few requests for a tour of like 70x antiques on display and of many examples. Here I am working on a trade of a 6x12 360Q for a Pre-360 series Altman Leko for the museum and other lights. Yet amongst many pro thru laborer types in the shop, a kind of dis-interest and lack of learning about their field. Leko for them that don't educate themselves into their job that should be a career is very limited in scope. 9:5 mostly and send me on tour. Example every Fresnel as example from it's invention in each type... no curiosity from college graduate, kid, or there for a job person in once even asking about them.
Leko perhaps is a "Old Timer" term and thanks for clearing me in on it. Fear also the loss of history in general. Spent around 20 minutes at one point explaing the genisis of the "Bunch Light" to the modern scoop in fixture type. Fixture and lamp development dates such things based on the lamp and invention of spun larger reflectors, there is a clear and presentable history. This to both MFA and non-college types. Hope some got a understanding at least and perhaps it inspires them some. Doubt any got much from a few minutes of education in a 12 to 16 hour day of pulling rocks up a slope as it were by way of "Job" in prepping gear. This rather than some guy describing the science of lighting a hundred or more years old and how it now relates to us in modern gear.
As per Leko term, Most I agree in good point, could care less and it's ancient technology. Scoop is what?
Amazes me.
Thanks. For my museum, I was very careful in term of "Leko" verses "Ellipsoidal" in naming what they did on their descriptions and lineage. Tough choice in now realizing the descrition of what one fixture to another in the above term is probably meaningless to others. And the new hires and other tech people just walk on without asking questions. Could care less about what's hanging above them at the time clock they punch into - this from 1916 to 1993 as they punch out for the day in a wealth of gear to wonder about. Such stuff I don't get - got a museum above the time clock... any questions? Nope.
Kind of amazed that from kids at work for the summer in going to college for theater lighting, to them at community college, to them that graduated etc. in them that want a career, yet to get only a few requests for a tour of like 70x antiques on display and of many examples. Here I am working on a trade of a 6x12 360Q for a Pre-360 series Altman Leko for the museum and other lights. Yet amongst many pro thru laborer types in the shop, a kind of dis-interest and lack of learning about their field. Leko for them that don't educate themselves into their job that should be a career is very limited in scope. 9:5 mostly and send me on tour. Example every Fresnel as example from it's invention in each type... no curiosity from college graduate, kid, or there for a job person in once even asking about them.
Leko perhaps is a "Old Timer" term and thanks for clearing me in on it. Fear also the loss of history in general. Spent around 20 minutes at one point explaing the genisis of the "Bunch Light" to the modern scoop in fixture type. Fixture and lamp development dates such things based on the lamp and invention of spun larger reflectors, there is a clear and presentable history. This to both MFA and non-college types. Hope some got a understanding at least and perhaps it inspires them some. Doubt any got much from a few minutes of education in a 12 to 16 hour day of pulling rocks up a slope as it were by way of "Job" in prepping gear. This rather than some guy describing the science of lighting a hundred or more years old and how it now relates to us in modern gear.
As per Leko term, Most I agree in good point, could care less and it's ancient technology. Scoop is what?
Amazes me.
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Just a few comments about the possibility of Selecon/Strand/Phillips killing the source four with it's new ellipsoidal:
About two years ago, I read on line about the Selecon Acclaim 4 1/2 inch Fresnel. I really wanted to check it out as a replacement for some aging 6" Fresnels. As luck would have it, PRG (Orlando) was having an open house for those of us that couldn't afford to go to LDI in Vegas that year. I called and asked if they would be displaying the Selecon products. After about 4 different respodents, they "thought so".
I drove the 45 miles to see, and was very pleased that one of the first booths that I came to was Selecon. A very pleasant person answered all of my questions and let me play withe the various instrument. I was impressed, and started to explain that I was very much interested in eventually purchasing some a few at a time. I started my comments, that "We were a poor community Theatre". I was stopped in mid sentence, and told that I had just said the magic word, and won a fully decked out Acclaim. I took it back to the theatre and did a not so formally shoot out with several other instruments of the same, or close type. With the FRK lamp at 650 watts, it was much brighter and more even field than either my Altman or EC 6" Fresnels" running 750 watts. It was very close to the ETC PARNel and less bright than the ETC PAR both using 575 watt. The big advantage was that it has a zoom range of 6* to 60* and is much smaller and lighter in weight. Additional features that are sellers, are the built in adjustable safety cable and the six foot cord. Also the power cable and safety come out the top of the back of the instrument making focus and hanging easier.
I purchased 2 more almost immediately. Then a month or two later, I purchased 7 more. At that last purchase, they had just been purchased by Phillips and joined with Strand. The purchase now took over a month with Strand now involved, and they tried to talk me out of them and purchase Strand instruments instead.
Over the nest few shows, all of my LDs fell in love with the Acclaim. I was budgeting to start purchasing at least another 20, when all of a sudden the price was increased a bit. (not a deal breaker) Then one of the instruments burned out it's socket. Emails and phone calls later, I was informed that a replacement socket would be $60 and that they would have to come from New Zealand. (two boats a month) I paid $150 per instrument, so $60 for a socket was pretty high in my estimation. Now it gets worse, that there is a minimum $100 purchase. The instrument is very complex in it's construction and very difficult to get the socket out. The FRK lamp has one pin smaller in diameter than the other, so replacing the socket with one of the generic types is nearly impossible. The FRK lamp had the filiment at a much lower height to base than most of the rest of lamps with a G9.5 base making it nearly impossible to find a replacement lamp with equal diameter pins.
The instrument is now in a box in pieces, and instead of purchasing 20 more Acclaims, I am in the proccess of rebuilding 20 older Fresnels that I had previously put in the warehouse for dispossal.
My point from this long dissertation, is that I don't think that Phillips/Strand/Selecon, have the business sense or the distribution capabilities to compete against ETC and their dealer network, regardless of how wonderful their new Ellipsoidal may or may not be.
When you can get any and all parst of a Source four over night for a very fair price,(except the reflector), They will be the "King of the Hill", until a superior procuct with superior support and a better or equal price comes along.
About two years ago, I read on line about the Selecon Acclaim 4 1/2 inch Fresnel. I really wanted to check it out as a replacement for some aging 6" Fresnels. As luck would have it, PRG (Orlando) was having an open house for those of us that couldn't afford to go to LDI in Vegas that year. I called and asked if they would be displaying the Selecon products. After about 4 different respodents, they "thought so".
I drove the 45 miles to see, and was very pleased that one of the first booths that I came to was Selecon. A very pleasant person answered all of my questions and let me play withe the various instrument. I was impressed, and started to explain that I was very much interested in eventually purchasing some a few at a time. I started my comments, that "We were a poor community Theatre". I was stopped in mid sentence, and told that I had just said the magic word, and won a fully decked out Acclaim. I took it back to the theatre and did a not so formally shoot out with several other instruments of the same, or close type. With the FRK lamp at 650 watts, it was much brighter and more even field than either my Altman or EC 6" Fresnels" running 750 watts. It was very close to the ETC PARNel and less bright than the ETC PAR both using 575 watt. The big advantage was that it has a zoom range of 6* to 60* and is much smaller and lighter in weight. Additional features that are sellers, are the built in adjustable safety cable and the six foot cord. Also the power cable and safety come out the top of the back of the instrument making focus and hanging easier.
I purchased 2 more almost immediately. Then a month or two later, I purchased 7 more. At that last purchase, they had just been purchased by Phillips and joined with Strand. The purchase now took over a month with Strand now involved, and they tried to talk me out of them and purchase Strand instruments instead.
Over the nest few shows, all of my LDs fell in love with the Acclaim. I was budgeting to start purchasing at least another 20, when all of a sudden the price was increased a bit. (not a deal breaker) Then one of the instruments burned out it's socket. Emails and phone calls later, I was informed that a replacement socket would be $60 and that they would have to come from New Zealand. (two boats a month) I paid $150 per instrument, so $60 for a socket was pretty high in my estimation. Now it gets worse, that there is a minimum $100 purchase. The instrument is very complex in it's construction and very difficult to get the socket out. The FRK lamp has one pin smaller in diameter than the other, so replacing the socket with one of the generic types is nearly impossible. The FRK lamp had the filiment at a much lower height to base than most of the rest of lamps with a G9.5 base making it nearly impossible to find a replacement lamp with equal diameter pins.
The instrument is now in a box in pieces, and instead of purchasing 20 more Acclaims, I am in the proccess of rebuilding 20 older Fresnels that I had previously put in the warehouse for dispossal.
My point from this long dissertation, is that I don't think that Phillips/Strand/Selecon, have the business sense or the distribution capabilities to compete against ETC and their dealer network, regardless of how wonderful their new Ellipsoidal may or may not be.
When you can get any and all parst of a Source four over night for a very fair price,(except the reflector), They will be the "King of the Hill", until a superior procuct with superior support and a better or equal price comes along.
Thanks for that story, dramatech. For a very brief time, we had a member, conveniently named
SELECON, see this thread. I wonder if he could be of any assistance? I'm sure you have tried to find the socket via other avenues. Perhaps finding one will be easier if/when more fixtures appear in the US.
Everyone, try to remember to ask Strand-Selecon about this elusive-at-a-reasonable-price socket at this year's LDI-Las Vegas, Oct. 19-24.
While you're at it, why not ask ETC about a Fresnel?
EDIT to add:
Is a six foot cord on an incandescent theatrical luminaire acceptable? I seem to recall studio fixtures can use a cord longer than 1m only because they have an inline switch?
SELECON, see this thread. I wonder if he could be of any assistance? I'm sure you have tried to find the socket via other avenues. Perhaps finding one will be easier if/when more fixtures appear in the US.
Everyone, try to remember to ask Strand-Selecon about this elusive-at-a-reasonable-price socket at this year's LDI-Las Vegas, Oct. 19-24.
While you're at it, why not ask ETC about a Fresnel?
EDIT to add:
STEVETERRY, or others with intimate knowledge of NRTL:
Is a six foot cord on an incandescent theatrical luminaire acceptable? I seem to recall studio fixtures can use a cord longer than 1m only because they have an inline switch?
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STEVETERRY
Well-Known Member
UL1573 Standard for Stage and Studio Luminaires and Connector Strips requires that a power supply cord to a luminaire be a minimum of 3 feet long. The only maximum length limit is when a special assembly of high temperature conductors and sleeving is used as the supply cord, in which case the maximum length is 3.3'.
ST
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meatpopsicle
Active Member
Ah, now that rings a bell! The FRK
BulbConnection.com - $15.24 FRK Replacement Lamp
uses the GY9.5 (2-Pin Prefocus) socket, accepts the same base as the FMR lamp, as used in the Colortran Zoom Mini series starting in 1985.
GZ9.5, GY9.5, GZY9.5 bulb socket DB-QEW1 lamp holder
I can't imagine a manufacturer would use or modify the GY 9.5 socket such that it can only be purchased from them. I bet our Osram buddy, DEL072 (above) could help in obtaining this socket.
BulbConnection.com - $15.24 FRK Replacement Lamp
uses the GY9.5 (2-Pin Prefocus) socket, accepts the same base as the FMR lamp, as used in the Colortran Zoom Mini series starting in 1985.
GZ9.5, GY9.5, GZY9.5 bulb socket DB-QEW1 lamp holder
I can't imagine a manufacturer would use or modify the GY 9.5 socket such that it can only be purchased from them. I bet our Osram buddy, DEL072 (above) could help in obtaining this socket.
David Ashton
Well-Known Member
I replace many of these lamp bases every year as I maintain many schools, I buy Chinese lamp bases which cost $5 each,[I buy 100 at a time] while the "genuine" Selecon bases may be platinum plated solid silver contacts, or not, the only difference I can detect between them is $55.Now if you think Selecon is expensive in the US try buying them in Australia.
Ironically I was one of the first Selecon agents in Australia, I started buying their gear as it was a cheap but adequate option to the Strand stuff, Strand commited business suicide by totally ignoring their grass roots customers, who went elsewhere, and kept bringing out new lines of products each worse and dearer than the last.You can only trade on a name for so long.In my market Strand is no loss, I never could get spares for them anyway.
Incidently the Leko and other axial fittings never caught on in 240 volt world because the lamps could not be made successfully, the FEP lamp was shortlived, very prone to vibration damage, and had a habit of bulging out and jamming in the reflecter so you had to smash them out, a total pain.
Ironically I was one of the first Selecon agents in Australia, I started buying their gear as it was a cheap but adequate option to the Strand stuff, Strand commited business suicide by totally ignoring their grass roots customers, who went elsewhere, and kept bringing out new lines of products each worse and dearer than the last.You can only trade on a name for so long.In my market Strand is no loss, I never could get spares for them anyway.
Incidently the Leko and other axial fittings never caught on in 240 volt world because the lamps could not be made successfully, the FEP lamp was shortlived, very prone to vibration damage, and had a habit of bulging out and jamming in the reflecter so you had to smash them out, a total pain.
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I've seen a lot of different theatres that were initially Strand installs with Strand fixtures, but when you look up today, you no longer see SL's, though you might still see some Strand 6" fresnels.
A friend of mine at a nearby roadhouse, initially a Strand install, went to replace the gel slot/accessory holder part of a few of his SL's a couple months back and Strand wanted over $300/ea. The next time he met with his board of directors, it was an easy sell to point out that it's cheaper to purchase brand new fixtures by another company than to maintain existing ones. Every Strand install in the area that I know of has had a similar board of directors meeting.
He's said that once he goes to decommission his SL's, he'll liquidate them and sell them for parts rather than full fixtures -- he'll make a killing by being able to sell parts to people for many times cheaper than Strand will.
I'd like to reiterate that I have seen SL's fail, suspended above audiences and cast members, in the scariest ways imaginable. The same feature that makes them desirable -- the 360° rotation, is the feature that makes them most prone to catastrophic failure. The ring that goes around the fixture is made of plastic, and when it breaks (which I've seen a couple times now), nothing is preventing it from falling -- not even a safety cable as this method of failure renders the yoke completely disconnected from the fixture.
A friend of mine at a nearby roadhouse, initially a Strand install, went to replace the gel slot/accessory holder part of a few of his SL's a couple months back and Strand wanted over $300/ea. The next time he met with his board of directors, it was an easy sell to point out that it's cheaper to purchase brand new fixtures by another company than to maintain existing ones. Every Strand install in the area that I know of has had a similar board of directors meeting.
He's said that once he goes to decommission his SL's, he'll liquidate them and sell them for parts rather than full fixtures -- he'll make a killing by being able to sell parts to people for many times cheaper than Strand will.
I'd like to reiterate that I have seen SL's fail, suspended above audiences and cast members, in the scariest ways imaginable. The same feature that makes them desirable -- the 360° rotation, is the feature that makes them most prone to catastrophic failure. The ring that goes around the fixture is made of plastic, and when it breaks (which I've seen a couple times now), nothing is preventing it from falling -- not even a safety cable as this method of failure renders the yoke completely disconnected from the fixture.
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