EQ Issues.

TechiGoz

Active Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Location
Adelaide, Australia & Singapore
I have run into a slight dilema.

I was doing some maintenance in my old school's theatre today, as I am in the country on holidays, and I wanted to do some work on the graphic as feedback had been a prominent issue in the theatre for sometime. I did the usual, and tried to ring-out the system, but as I did I got no change, which I thought was odd.

The theatre is equipped with a Klark&Technik DD360 and the master signal is sent from the board (Midas Venice 360), through a mixer, THEN to the graphic and then out to the Meyer speakers in FOH.

When I rang the system, the graphic seemed quite unresponsive to anything I did, whether it be change settings on the desk or on the graphic itself. Could this be because it is running through the mixer (just a Sony one, which is connected to a Projector etc) first before the EQ or because I am forgetting something when ringing-out the system.

Any help or advice would be fantastic.

Thanks guys and gals.

Dan
 

Peter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Location
MA, USA
Could you clarify your signal chain for us? Is it

Venice ---> Graphic Eq ---> Amps / Speakers

I'm not sure what your saying about the Sony mixer and the projector.


Just in general... it's obvious, but I might as well say it, check for a bypass button (the really pesky ones are the ones that are reset back into the device), and check the input / output wireing. I cannot find that model EQ online in a really quick glance, so I cant really find more specifics right now.

If you find a link to your EQ and claify your signal chain we will probably be able to better suggest what is going on!
 

TechiGoz

Active Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Location
Adelaide, Australia & Singapore
Sorry about that. To clarify it is the KlarK TekniK DN 360 GRAPHIC EQUALISER

The sony mixer is what an installation company installed. It is a rather overly complicated layout for an installation, but the mixer brings signals from DVD players, CD's etc and sends them to either the speakers, speakers and projector etc etc. There is also a master, and a stereo line 5 & 6, which must be up during operation, as the main signal from the venice runs through those lines in the mixer and out to the speakers.

The signal chain, from what I can gather after looking at it, is:

Venice ----> Sony SRP–X700P Mixer ----> DN360 Graphic EQ ----> Speakers

As advised I will check on the bypass button, and get back to you. The wiring seems fine, but if need be we can do a more detailed test.

Thanks.

Dan
 

the_dude

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
The 360's are very sensitive graphs. It says 12 db but in reality it is much more. There's no reason why the eq shouldn't work in line. There can be problems mixing a console into a console, but nothing that would change the sensitivity of the graph. Especially if it's run in-line. On the 360's the bypass switch is the middle position on the switch that changes between 6 and 12 db of attenuation.
 

BNBSound

Active Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Location
Alexander, NY
This is what happens when egg head salesmen get involved with production. We've got a sound company up here with a crew of guys that sell sound systems who just know a whole lot about selling sound systems. They call up a church or school, offer a free evaluation and then make with the, "Buy our crap". (This should probably be in the Rants section.) Then you get an install that makes regular sound guys turn their heads sideways trying to figure out what they were thinking.
Seems to me if you have a Venice on hand, you should maybe run all your inputs into that. Just a thought. Although I can certainly see the logic (scoff) in adding a digitally controlled matrix mixer into the signal chain just so there's an easily accessible control surface that anybody can get at and screw up.
Please pardon me on this post, I'm in the middle of sorting out a church install where over $10,000 was spent. There's not a single graph or compressor in the ENTIRE place and the musicians have control of their own monitor mixes to the COMPLETE EXCLUSION of the guys at the mix!!! Installs like this make me want to switch from Mountain Dew to bourbon at 10 in the morning... sheesh!
 

Andy_Leviss

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Premium Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Location
NYC
Other complications from the second mixer aside, that shouldn't affect the EQ if the EQ is inline. The EQ's in the proper place, the last piece of gear before the amplifier (which in the case of Meyer self-powereds is built into the speaker). So I'd have to second the guess that the EQ was put into bypass. Otherwise, you'd definitely hear changes when sliding the faders or twirling the gain knob.

The range switch is the one that's got the bypass on the 360; center is bypass, top or bottom switches the range of the faders.

I can't remember if the KT's have a hard bypass on power off or not, but if they do, as silly as it might sound, is the EQ actually powered up? If it's got a hard bypass, and one of the fuses has blown, it would go into bypass mode (depending on which fuse it was, of course). I'm fairly certain the KT doesn't have a power-off bypass, but I figure I'll mention it just in case. Of course, this one's fairly obvious to spot, since the power LED won't come on :)

--A
 

TechiGoz

Active Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Location
Adelaide, Australia & Singapore
I'll answer a few of these as best I can:

First off, to reply to BNBSound's point about the egg head salesman, you hit it dead on my friend. That is exactly what happened, and now that people who know what they are doing are trying to fix it, we can't get a thing working. Matrix Mixers, AMX systems, its all just for show and cash in hand i think.

Secondly, to answer Andy_Leviss, from what I have found of a bypass switch, there is none. However, as you said, there is a switch on the front panel and that IS in the centre. If you are correct, this could very well be the bypass, which could be why we are not getting any response from the 360. It is powered, and there is a red LED that shows that, so power shouldn't be an issue. However, I will be checking the switch and moving it off the middle setting and seeing what happens.

But as far as I can tell, its all powered up and running.

Thanks guys.

Dan
 

Eboy87

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 3, 2004
Location
Chicago, IL
Like Andy said, if that little silver toggle switch (the one on the left) is centered, the unit is in bypass, that's why you aren't getting any change when moving the faders.
 

Andy_Leviss

Active Member
Premium Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Location
NYC
Secondly, to answer Andy_Leviss, from what I have found of a bypass switch, there is none. However, as you said, there is a switch on the front panel and that IS in the centre. If you are correct, this could very well be the bypass, which could be why we are not getting any response from the 360.
My question wasn't whether that switch was the bypass or not. It is, point of fact :) As I noted, top is one range, bottom is the other, center is bypass. If your switch is in the center position, that's your problem. No ifs about it :grin:
 

mcgart

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Location
Singapore
just thought i would round off this thread with an update/conclusion...

(if you're wondering how i know, we work in the same theatre)

well i checked the bypass switch on the eq today and wow...it was set to bypass.

so i switched it back to where it should be and instantly there was changes to the sound when we rang out the system!

funny part of it....we've had the equaliser for about 4 years and no one has looked at it since it was installed. so for 4 years we've thought we had an equaliser but it was in bypass mode all the time...

thanks for all the help
 

anticowboyism

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
glad you found the problem. its always the simplest thing that you overlook.

Just a thought for the future, and a couple of people have said this already, but the Midas should be the main output to the EQ and speakers. Not the Sony mixer. You can either input all the video sources directly into the Midas, or you can continue to use the Sony as a submixer for video sources, and send the Sony's output as a stereo mix into the Midas. The Midas Venice is a very good sounding and expensive mixer. You should not be running it into a sub-standard sony mixer. If anything, the sony mixer should be fed into the Midas.

What you can do then, is to wire the Klark Teknik EQ to the Insert points on the Main L+R outputs of the Midas, rather than how it is now, inline. That is the standard way to do things because it gives you more flexibility. Then the Insert button on the Midas Main L+R output will act as a true bypass for the EQ in times when you want to take it out. Also the impedance and voltage levels are more appropriate using the Inserts rather than running it inline.