Equipment rental cost

ACTSTech

Well-Known Member
Can anyone help with what a fair rental cost for equipment should be?

The group I work with is attempting to rent some lighting equipment for their spring musical. I was not involved in the Christmas show and the rental guy that they got brought 6 elation led tri-pars, 2 source 4 ellipsoidals, 24 foot wide, 8 foot high truss, one lighting tree, and an ancient non-user friendly Strand light console. Rental was for one week. He set up and left, didn’t provide any operator or training. Cost to us was $3000.

I find that outrageous. Am I overreacting?

This show, we’re going to need the truss again, if not 2 trusses, preferably with hand crank genie towers on each end, a light board and some dmx splitters, but I’m really afraid of the numbers I’m going to get back. Is there a number that is “fair”? In my old days, we’d typically rent equipment for 5-10% of the new purchase price, but I’ve been told that’s not the case anymore. Any help is appreciated!
 
Your location can make a big difference in rental costs. Do you have any other rental shops in the area that you could get a competitive bid from? That could give you some really good context on costs. Your biggest costs in a rig that size are going to be delivery and labor to set the system up. You can probably save a lot of costs if you can provide those instead of your vendor.
 
Your location can make a big difference in rental costs.

Unfortunately, we’re in the cultural black hole where we’re not Cleveland Ohio, not Buffalo NY, not Pittsburgh PA, and too far for those cities to care. There are a few rental houses I worked with, but it’s an hour or more to drive, and to be honest, they don’t want to rent small. The lighting guy who I’m friendly with apologized profusely, but doesn’t have the capacity to go small when he’s dealing with stadium/arena/giant rig equipment. Location matters, I know.

That being said, I have box trucks, trailers, and warm bodies at my disposal. A 2 hour drive is nothing, we’re willing to make this work. It’s just frustrating that there’s a lack of cooperation.

I do understand that there’s a HUGE stigma with us being a non-profit community group. No, we don’t have a huge venue, no we don’t have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend per production, no we don’t receive grants from the state, but we’ve never been in the red financially. We’re willing to rent, spend, but within our limits.
 
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That does sound like you're in a bit of a tight spot. I'd think some branch of Vincent would at least give you a quote, even if they wouldn't spend much effort on it. It sounds like they surround you on all sides. How far are you from Detroit?
 
I can comment on rentals of audio gear and production services... we ask clients up front about their budget. If it's not above a certain threshold we suggest another vendor. Our fixed costs of prepping, packaging, receiving the returns, inspecting and repairing the returned items and putting them back in inventory have a cost, and at a certain point if enough gear isn't going out on an individual contract, it can cost us money in the long run.

US$3k for what you rented seems more like a corporate, retail price. That the equipment was delivered and picked up likely added significantly to cost (lost productivity of the worker - he/she/they could be doing other work that makes the firm real money, in addition to the actual costs of the delivery fleet and mileage).

As for percentage of purchase cost - I'd love to get 5% or more on a weekly but my geographic market is hell-bent on a race to the bottom of rates (predatory pricing from a competitor whose other business subsidizes their audio/lighting shop).
 
You mostly paid for labor and trucking to set it up. Any good company would give you an itemized PO that would show you what cost what.
 
Not a lot of lighting for $3k, but truss is cumbersome to transport and erect and the guy was involved in set up and tear down.

Just for big round numbers on labor.

4 hrs prep
1hrs transport
6 hrs on-site
1hrs travel

= 12 hrs x (2) for load-in plus strike.
= 24 hrs + 1 hrs contract management (quotation, billing, phone calls, etc

25 hrs * $75/hr = $1875.

That labor estimate is rough order of magnitude and may vary depending on if you're dealing with an established company or a freelancer but probably 1/2 to 2/3 of your fee is labor. That makes your overall $3k fee very reasonable for the amount of equipment you got, even if it doesn't feel that way.
 
I think the frustration for me, and not an attack on you Tim, is when someone asks for budget first before talking needs. I have an idea what we need, I’ll ask for advise and will listen, but when I say I have a preliminary budget of whatever, and the rental places don’t want to listen for under a huge amount, it’s like they’re not worth calling, especially when they don’t give you options.

And I’d love to see an itemized rental p.o. So far, all I get is “services included...”
 
@ACTSTech - No problem at all. It's the reality of what it costs to operate a business in our industry and while some folks are understandably frustrated when we ask, in effect, "can you afford this" at least it's honest. I don't want to spend 15 minutes on the phone with someone only for them to find out what they need will be above their budget, no matter what the items or services. It's a poor use of their time and mine, but it's also why we try to suggest someone who might be able to help them and stay on budget.
 
Not a lot of lighting for $3k, but truss is cumbersome to transport and erect and the guy was involved in set up and tear down.

Just for big round numbers on labor.

4 hrs prep
1hrs transport
6 hrs on-site
1hrs travel

= 12 hrs x (2) for load-in plus strike.
= 24 hrs + 1 hrs contract management (quotation, billing, phone calls, etc

25 hrs * $75/hr = $1875.

That labor estimate is rough order of magnitude and may vary depending on if you're dealing with an established company or a freelancer but probably 1/2 to 2/3 of your fee is labor. That makes your overall $3k fee very reasonable for the amount of equipment you got, even if it doesn't feel that way.
Agreed, Mike, if the numbers were correct. I worked with IATSE unions, so I know rates and labor costs for some things are the bulk of your costs. I’ll argue though that triangle truss is not difficult to transport or set up when you buy a kit, and when all the lights are pre-rigged, and the abuse shows, you have someone working to cut time and work (which I do understand) at the expense of his equipment. Load in was 2 hours on a Sunday, strike was an hour another Sunday.

I’ve contacted him for a quote for our show, he wasn’t interested in using our lights, which I would pre-hang, to supplement his lights, nor was he interested in me coming to pick up equipment. He was very interested in doing it himself, but I suppose me doing work is cutting into his income, so I understand some of that.

I’m just sort of surprised at the costs some people are asking, I guess I need to come into the 21st century one of these years.
 
To follow @TimMc , a budget is extremely helpful to know when deciding what products and services are appropriate to bring to the table. I can't count the number of times I've had a client tell me that "Money is no object! Give me the best and just tell me what it will cost." that suddenly has a very firm budget once an over the top production is quoted, and that all is turned into wasted time on everyone's part.
 
The hours may be less but he still has to factor in gas, owning a vehicle/trailer large enough to transport, insurance, etc. There are other overhead costs for that kind of operation that get absorbed by rental rates. I understand why he would prefer to do rentals that he can bundle his labor with; not uncommon with smaller boutique operations where their revenue stream depends on being able to pair labor with equipment -- that sounds like he's not a great fit for you in the future.

As for the current problem at hand, for $3k you can pick up a few Colorsource PAR's or some Chauvet Pro series fixtures. For the total cost of 2-3 shows of using that guy for rental you can have a couple light stands and a handful of your own LED fixtures and never have to rent again.

I've also found that eBay is ripe with good condition used ETC fixtures such as $250 for 21" Selador Pearls. I don't see any up at the moment for awhile they were posted regularly. Wouldn't be my first choice in 2020 if I were buying new but for $250 they're pretty bangin' high quality, variable color temp front lights.
 
Not a lot of lighting for $3k, but truss is cumbersome to transport and erect and the guy was involved in set up and tear down.

Just for big round numbers on labor.

4 hrs prep
1hrs transport
6 hrs on-site
1hrs travel

= 12 hrs x (2) for load-in plus strike.
= 24 hrs + 1 hrs contract management (quotation, billing, phone calls, etc

25 hrs * $75/hr = $1875.

That labor estimate is rough order of magnitude and may vary depending on if you're dealing with an established company or a freelancer but probably 1/2 to 2/3 of your fee is labor. That makes your overall $3k fee very reasonable for the amount of equipment you got, even if it doesn't feel that way.
What planet do you live on where someone in rural PA/Ohio renting out a couple of old lights can bill $75/h for labor?
 
I would second talking to Vincent. If you're mentioning Cleveland (even if you aren't there) Vincent is willing to send gear a decent distance. I was working in Rhode island for a rental house and I feel like thats about a thousand more than we would have charged for the gear.

Colin and Fantasee probably ARE a bit too far for you being in Michigan, but if you're in ohio or the cleveland area (even in the rural parts) you have some options.
 
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Is $75/hr expensive for building truss and hanging lights? I'd say its expensive as overhire but it seems like the situation of a one man rental, delivery and build is a good deal.
In my opinion, yes $75 an hour for this area is very high, but I wouldn’t be asking these questions if I felt the rental was reasonable. We could have purchased his exact same truss package from Sweetwater for less than his “hourly” rate if we go at the $75 figure. That’s where I get concerned. I don’t fault people for wanting to earn a living.

I’m looking at “local” companies for rental and find myself frustrated at the lack of choices. I know I’m old and set in my ways. If I’m driving an hour and a half to pick up gear, I guess I’d like more choices. Nature of the beast I suppose. Thanks everyone for the help!

EDIT: I’m not promoting nor blasting Sweetwater. They’re a fine company. What I meant was his Trusst Goalpost Kit with a few extra pieces of truss is available there and the price is there as well. I easily could have put other vendors who carry the same kit. I apologize for offending those who were offended.
 
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