etc boards

Yeah, I knew it was something along the x-something or other.

That is a pretty cool feature, if it doesn't need it. I wonder what it does now or what they still have it listed for?

And as myself an ETC guy, I would take a congo jr over an express/expression any day....

but if I can hold out, I'm holding out for the little Eos, what ever it may be called....

Has anyone played with the Smartfade ML? That might be another option here too... you just can't beat the price on that one.... 3 grand for a console that does pallette based moving light control?

(And by pallette, I am not making a reference to the strand product, just the way of working...)
 
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Has anyone played with the Smartfade ML? That might be another option here too... you just can't beat the price on that one.... 3 grand for a console that does pallette based moving light control?
(And by pallette, I am not making a reference to the strand product, just the way of working...)
I amcurious about this, too. I have been considering getting some of my own equipment once I get myself established and can afford it. The Smartfade (and the rest of the associated gear) looked like it might be checking out.
 
Yeah it's my understanding that you can just plug a laptop in to the Strand network and use it to control the system without a dongle.

Another interesting Strand note. This issue of Lighting & Sound America has an interview with the guy in charge of entertainment lighting at Genlyte. He makes several interesting comments in the interview about the recent purchase of Strand. The most interesting to me was, "The brand is strong enough; it really is up to us to revive it, bring the service and quality back to the levels the market requires. Strand has been through some rough times but so had Vari-lite..." [before Genlyte bought and revived it to an industry leader]. Anyway, my point in posting that is I have to admit I'm a little concerned about Strand's reputation in the service and long term tech support areas. But here we have the new big boss from Genlyte saying they know Strand has a reputation problem and they are going to fix it and return Strand to the top. That's pretty encouraging.

I haven't seen the Smartfade yet, but there have been several big shows like USITT since it was released so somebody must have seen it by now.
 
I have used the smartfade ML. I'm not perticularly fond of it. One of my boards of preference is the Avolites Pearl. I havent heard anyone mention it, but i think it is one of the best of both worlds. I have an array of consoles and one of my first to grab is the pearl. I cant wait to take the new Avo Pearl 2008 for a test drive. As far as for a theatre i'd personally install an Avo pearl, b/c you have all the faders for all the conventional fader guys then you have a whole world of moving light controls. As far as strand, their new consoles make a lot more since as far as logisitics. Where are you located in TX? I have an array of consoles you can take and test drive. I can also get demos for just about any console under the sun. As far as people phasing out the ETC express and expression, i have 2 schools buying intelligent lights along with a Hog 1000. I just got a call from another school looking at buying a Hog 1000 b/c their ETC 48/96 is giving them issues and they are tired of always cross renting a console to run intelligent lights. BTW you can run intelligent lights off an an ETC express or expression, but they never said it was easy. Plus you quickly run out of channels. Why ETC makes a console that has 1024 DMX channels but the console has about a max of 250 actual channels is beyond me. You reach that number real quick when you patch a couple of X-spots (each take 39 channels) and you already have 96-120 channels of dimming.
 
Why ETC makes a console that has 1024 DMX channels but the console has about a max of 250 actual channels is beyond me. You reach that number real quick when you patch a couple of X-spots (each take 39 channels) and you already have 96-120 channels of dimming.

That's a simple answer.

2 reasons.

1) when the board came out, there were not fixtures with 39 channels needed to fixtures. I think that board came out in the early 90's? What was out then?

and B) the board is a theatrical style desk that was never really intended for moving light control. Can it do it, yes it can. But is it easy? Not by a long shot. The software has been adapted over the years to make it easier, but easier than getting teeth pulled is still pretty painful.

The boards are great for what they are - I like to say that they were primarily invented for that middle school music teacher that needed to run lights once a year, and didn't really want to remember how to do it from year to year. They can sit down in front of it and get lights to come on pretty easily. Compared to the Strand consoles of the time, they are infinitely easier to run and since that was the competition at the time, I'd say they (ETC)met the goal of making an easier to use console. The fact that they have stood up for so long is a testament to that.

Now are there a lot more options out there today? Most definitely. The original poster of this thread hasn't really chimed in to say where in Texas that they are or any follow up to the original post, so we can't really say what they actually need in their console to make any better recommendations. At this point, we are all just spouting off about our preferences with no mind to what they actually need.
 
I talked to Fred Foster himself and he realizes this Express "product gap" problem and I am sure thier next replacement for that "middle school music teacher" is going to be a smash. On a side note its amzaing the number of high school still buying express systems.

just my thoughts. Disclaimer: we have an express double Disclaimer: we bought it 5 years ago.
 
I just wanted to post giving a little more love to the express series of board, if you show in mainly just conventianls its a great board and I prefer it greatly over the expression/insight series.
 
I have used several boards and by fare my favorites are ETC. I really enjoy working with the Congo Jr and am urging one of the venues i work at to by. However, for purely conventional rigs with a few DMX toys go with an Express. They are cheap and easy to use.
 
Original poster here. It is hard to describe what I'm looking for here, as so much will be changing in the near future. We currently have about 90 dimmers, about 10 dmx devices...no movers...blah blah blah. Most of that will be changing in the near future (next 2-3 years). I'm wanting to get about 3-4 movers, so I can train students on them. Also, the world of lighting is changing so much, I hear dmx is on its way out as I understand it...though I have not researched what it is to be replaced by. I have been a TD for 2 years. Since then, I have had to research so much that my head is beginning to hurt. Last year, I completely replaced my entire sound system. I replaced all of my curtains, tons of shop equipment...I'm surprised my admin has gone along with it...now I'm having to replace a console. I know that now is not the best time...but I got to do something.
 
Original poster here. It is hard to describe what I'm looking for here, as so much will be changing in the near future. We currently have about 90 dimmers, about 10 dmx devices...no movers...blah blah blah. Most of that will be changing in the near future (next 2-3 years). I'm wanting to get about 3-4 movers, so I can train students on them. Also, the world of lighting is changing so much, I hear dmx is on its way out as I understand it...though I have not researched what it is to be replaced by. I have been a TD for 2 years. Since then, I have had to research so much that my head is beginning to hurt. Last year, I completely replaced my entire sound system. I replaced all of my curtains, tons of shop equipment...I'm surprised my admin has gone along with it...now I'm having to replace a console. I know that now is not the best time...but I got to do something.

If you are running any intels whatsoever DO NOT get an expression. The automove while dark function of all the strand consoles will pay for itself. Also, all strand products are networked natively, so no worries there.
 
If you are running any intels whatsoever DO NOT get an expression. The automove while dark function of all the strand consoles will pay for itself. Also, all strand products are networked natively, so no worries there.

Not entirely true. The 100, 200 and 300 series are not network native... But that is neither here nor there. :p

I will agree that you shouldn't get an expression, at least one without emphasis on it. Emphasis does have a Move Before Bright function and that does save hours of programming time, especially the first few times of using movers.

Original poster here. It is hard to describe what I'm looking for here, as so much will be changing in the near future. We currently have about 90 dimmers, about 10 dmx devices...no movers...blah blah blah. Most of that will be changing in the near future (next 2-3 years). I'm wanting to get about 3-4 movers, so I can train students on them. Also, the world of lighting is changing so much, I hear dmx is on its way out as I understand it...though I have not researched what it is to be replaced by. I have been a TD for 2 years. Since then, I have had to research so much that my head is beginning to hurt. Last year, I completely replaced my entire sound system. I replaced all of my curtains, tons of shop equipment...I'm surprised my admin has gone along with it...now I'm having to replace a console. I know that now is not the best time...but I got to do something.
You say that you need to do something now, but why now? Can you wait a few months or so? What are the consoles that you have looked at.

You say that you think DMX is going the way of the Dodo, but that is not true at all. DMX is going to be around for years and years to come. It will most likely be the last mile for at least the foreseeable future. Now, will there be a network distributing that signal via TCP/IP to a node that converts it to DMX? most likely.

It really does sound like you need to select a console with an idea towards the entire system. Have you gotten a local dealer involved? These are the people whose job it is to know what you need based on what you tell them that you do. If you don't want to post your location, you can always email me privately, and I will be happy to give you the name of several local dealers in your area that will be more than happy to meet with you and make some recomendations.
 
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Not entirely true. The 100, 200 and 300 series are not network native... But that is neither here nor there. :p
I will agree that you shouldn't get an expression, at least one without emphasis on it. Emphasis does have a Move Before Bright function and that does save hours of programming time, especially the first few times of using movers.
You say that you need to do something now, but why now? Can you wait a few months or so? What are the consoles that you have looked at.
You say that you think DMX is going the way of the Dodo, but that is not true at all. DMX is going to be around for years and years to come. It will most likely be the last mile for at least the foreseeable future. Now, will there be a network distributing that signal via TCP/IP to a node that converts it to DMX? most likely.
It really does sound like you need to select a console with an idea towards the entire system. Have you gotten a local dealer involved? These are the people whose job it is to know what you need based on what you tell them that you do. If you don't want to post your location, you can always email me privately, and I will be happy to give you the name of several local dealers in your area that will be more than happy to meet with you and make some recomendations.

All of the consoles that strand currently produces all have shownet capability. The 300 series did as well. The 100 and 200's did not, but then again, they aren't around anymore.
 
Yes DMX is being replaced by two things that will work together called ACN and RDM. The goal of these two systems will be that you plug your intelligent gear into the lighting system using ethernet. And your system recognizes exactly what you just plugged in. Nothing to set, the system will just know what is there. ACN will be the universal language protocol that will allow a Strand console and a ETC dimmer to talk to each on this network. RDM is the ability for devices introduce themselves to the network.

However this is a long way away from being reality. At this point there are a lot of ethernet based systems going in but they are all "ACN Ready". Because they just decided on what the protocol standard would be a few months ago and it's a way off until it really exists. So currently ETC and Strand systems are talking a different protocol on their ethernet networks. But that's not a big deal...

So for then next few years what you will see is a combination of Ethernet and DMX that coverts by use of little "nodes". My new theater is going to be running all Strand ethernet between the console, dimmers, and a computer that is part of the network... from there it goes out to the house as ethernet but converts back to DMX through nodes before any devices can hook in. Eventually that will change but it's a long way away. If I want to plug an ETC console in, I just hook it up on DMX and run it through a node into the Strand ethernet network. You'll notice that the moving light manufacturers talk about being ACN and RDM ready but there is no ethernet jack on the device yet. It's all way out there for now.

So in the end, the advice is to not be concerned about any of this. In the short run if you want to run ETC dimmers and a Strand console together that's no big deal... you just need a node to translate from DMX to the ethernet protocol of the dimmers.

As for more on console recommendations now that we know a little more about your needs. I'm a big fan of Congo/Congo Jr. for a mix of conventional and intelligent gear. The stuff programmed into the moving light's section of the board is really powerful and will make you look like a genius programmer the first time you try it. But it's got a bit of a learning curve. If you are more concerned about simple operation, the Strand Palette consoles are far less intimidating and easier to teach a newbie on (like a good old express) but the software is pretty good with intelligent gear as well.

In my case I kind of got stuck with a Strand system but I'm very happy with what I'll be able to do with the Classic Palette for teaching new students how to use the system. If my big time fund raising is successful and I'm able to get a bunch of intelligent gear, I'm going to get a Congo Jr. to swap in for more high end work. If I had the decision to make myself without contractors and stuff to deal with, I would have gone all ETC and Congo from the start. But I have to admit the Palette will be a much better option for teaching new students.
 
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Just to throw a new board in to the mix - Compulite Dlite. One of Compulite's more basic boards. I haven't used it, but it looks very nice. 3 encoders, mini touch screen, external monitor, effects, SMPTE and MIDI sync onboard, etc. All around nice board. Looks like you can get the 48/96 model for about $10.5K or so. Very nice board that looks like it will play well with conventionals and intelligents.
 
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That's an important point. You've never told us what your budget is. While the discussion has all been about the top end consoles there are a lot of other options out there.
 
You might also consider waiting a year-ish, because, as I am teching a show designed by Karl Haas (one of ETC's Regional Reps.) we have been talking about the upcoming release of ION, which is slated to replace the express/expression line.
 
The Hog 1000 is a popular board with a lot of highschools around here. The market is moving away from tons of faders and go all virtual. Also the Road Hog is a good fairly priced board. It is more complex than the Hog 1000, but is more packed with features.
 
You might also consider waiting a year-ish, because, as I am teching a show designed by Karl Haas (one of ETC's Regional Reps.) we have been talking about the upcoming release of ION, which is slated to replace the express/expression line.

It finally has a name! I can't wait until it has a face(plate) that is released, though!

And what's up with ETC and these short 3-letter names?
 
It finally has a name! I can't wait until it has a face(plate) that is released, though!
And what's up with ETC and these short 3-letter names?

Somebody is a little to cute over at ETC... they just got rid of all the Expression, Impression, Obsessions and now it appears it's going to be all 3 letter names.

Hey Icewolf any word of when ION's coming? I had a rep tell me about a year ago that it would be around 2 years until they were done. I also had a rep at LDI say he thought that "EOS Jr." might be out sometime late spring or early summer... as in VERY soon.
 

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