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ETC Color Source Relay Power

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by carsonld, May 2, 2019.

  1. carsonld

    carsonld Active Member

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    I am almost positive that I am overlooking the information I need... But am going to ask anyways.
    I am beginning the process of replacing our system with LED fixtures. The first part of this project is replacing our seven cyc fixtures with the ColorSource CYC. Ideally what this project will look like is power will come in from a circuit on the electric raceway and then sent to the ColorSource Relay. Data will be sent from the catwalk and into the ColorSource Relay. Here are my questions...

    What dimmer should I be looking at to replace the stage pin circuit on 3rd electric?

    How many fixtures can each relay handle? At some point we will have 5 CS pars and 14 CS spots on each electric. Im assuming I will need a new relay for each "system". Is the CS Relay the best way to go for this?

    Anyone had luck with their wireless DMX relays? Im worried running roughly 67 fixtures all through wireless DMX. I figured I would have some sort of wireless/wired hybrid. Such as having the electrics all wired relays and the box booms and grid being wireless.... Point is, what are y'all thoughts? I just feel there is more room for error.

    Also, I am running NET 2 in the space.

    Last two question... This doesn't pertain to the CS but I have twelve cheap LED flood lights on our worklight circuits. How can I get the dimmer to automatically turn them on when its level is set to 1%?

    Anyone have pric

    Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  2. danTt

    danTt Well-Known Member

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    I might be missing something as well, but I don't see why you are getting color source relays at all. If you're feeding wired dmx from the catwalk, and using existing raceways, just replace the dimmer module with something switchable. As far as quantity, just look up the power draw for the fixtures and use math to determine how many fit on your circuit.
     
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  3. carsonld

    carsonld Active Member

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    Would I not need the relay to shut the fixtures off from constant power dimmer module?
     
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  4. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    The ColorSource Relay is rated for 20 amps pass-through and can control 32 down stream units.
     
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  5. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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    I dont think ETC recommends more then 10 units powered through a CS relay. DMX for 32. And the CS units are 132 watts iirc, but inrush is much higher. The powercon connector and jumpers limit it to 10

    If you have circuits on dimmers in modules, your best aporoach is ptobably repacing the modules with air gap relay modules.

    If not, id guess interceoting the circuits and installing panels z like the ETC Foundry mini panel - would be most economical - even with electrician.

    Your needs and existing conditions and plans need some careful thought and more details . Exactly what exists, is worth reusing/repurposing, and where might it go in near future. I dont have te knee jerk reaction to wireless, but look at function, flexibility, reliability, and cost of several options.

    PS - data sheet says relay rated for 16 amps - so 1920 watts. But still only 10 CS units.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  6. microstar

    microstar Well-Known Member

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    Every ETC ColorSource data sheet I've seen lists the maximum number of that type fixture a 20A relay module will switch.
     
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  7. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    While they don't actually specify a particular number of instruments, per the data sheet I went back and reread it. The Max switching current IS 16amp. The Max rated Circuit breaker is 20.


    RELAY SPECIFICATIONS
    • Switching current: 16A max at 40°C ambient
    • Mechanical Endurance: 1,000,000 cycles
    • Quiessent load: less than .65 Watts during sleep mode
    • Electrical endurance
    - Resistive 100,000 cycles @16A; 250V
    - Inductive 100,000 cycles @6A; 277V
    - Motor 40,000 cycles @1.5HP; 250VAC
    - Ballast 20,000 cycles @1500W; 347V
    - Electronic 20,000 cycles @3300W @277V (12A)


    End of the day it's a great little unit with a ton of applications. If you have the ability to swap out current dimmers with relay modules that may be a cheaper way to go. But if you want to add wireless DMX capabilities in addition to power off at DMX signal loss The color source relays are a great option.
     

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  8. microstar

    microstar Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant the data sheets for each particular type of fixture, not the CS relay data sheet:
     

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  9. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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    I said 10 because it has a single powercon outlet, and the ETC fixture with powercon in and out are limited to 10 - or one plus up to 9 more as they say it.

    PAR and SPOT " Up to nine luminaires (15A max) may be linked via power thru connector (10 luminaires total per circuit) when used with R20 relay module or Unison® Echo Relay Panel. Consult breaker trip curves when used with other equipment. Requires power from a non-dimmable source"

    CYC "Fixtures per circuit 9 (20A switched circuit, R20 module or similar)"

    I wouldn't expect them to recommend more than 10 on a ColorSource relay but perhaps you could figure out how to code complantly make a PowerCon twofer and do it.
     
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  10. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    If you are providing power to the LED’s (or moving lights) from pre-wired circuits on an electric, that are currently powered off ETC Sensor dimmers, you would want to change the circuits (in pairs) to either R20 relays or a constant breaker module if you don’t want on/off control at the console, as the constants are only a circuit breaker. I say “in pairs” as each relay module is, like the dimmer module, feeding a pair of circuits.

    It make no sense to be powering ColorSource relays on a dimmed circuit.

    If you have a CEM3 system, you can install ETC ThruPower modules, which are combined dimmers and relays on one module, each TP module feeds 2 circuits. The nice thing about TP is only one circuit need be a relay of you need the 2nd circuit on the module as a dimmer. If the dimmer rack is not CEM3, an R20 relay is a better choice.
     
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  11. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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    What are your existing dimmers?
     
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  12. Smayniac

    Smayniac Member

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    I'm also in the process of updating a system. When I questioned ETC about it I was told that if I had ETC modules that could be set to SWITCHED I didn't need to replace them with relays to run ETC LED fixtures. I actually pressed them on fixture life and they assured me their LEDs were designed to run properly on switched ETC dimmers.
    Bob
     
  13. RickR

    RickR Well-Known Member

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    THEIR fixtures on THEIR dimmers, their warranty! Anything else and no warranty at all.

    Just had a chat with a Broadway touring elect. 2 years with Luster2s on various dimmers. No problems and all they do is park the dimmers.
     
  14. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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    But ETC does not recommend it. So for one show if you are certain the LED fixture won't be dimmed - which voids the ETC warranty if it is - OK. If you're adding LED to the inventory and will use them every show, not recommended at all.
     
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  15. AlexDonkle

    AlexDonkle Active Member

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    How many theatres do you think have these dimmers set with switched, and then have a big masking tape label warning "DO NOT TOUCH OR CHANGE" across the front?
     
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  16. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Oh my. I remember hearing (and reading the commotion online on another forum) about The Producers touring company powering Mac2000's from parked Sensor dimmers, eighteen years ago!
     
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  17. RickR

    RickR Well-Known Member

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    18 years ago the power supplies were magnetic. I believe they tolerate dimmers better than switch-mode ones.
     
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  18. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure more than a few, and some with gaffers tape.
     
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