ETC Element 40, 500 buying guide

nagates

Member
Hey guys,

I was just wondering what people's thoughts where on an ETC Element 40, 500 lighting board.
I am looking to eventually replace, an older ETC express 48/96. As we are looking to use more dmx controlled devices, and LED based lighting fixtures (which can hog channels). This seems like a fairly reasonably priced board, and perfect for a smaller venue, which we are.

So I am just looking for peoples general thoughts, gotchas, is this a fairly good board for learning what the industry currently uses (more or less). It looks like it uses the EOS software to run the board.

thanks

http://www.stagelightingstore.com/E...gn=products&utm_medium=base&utm_source=google
 
I am a big fan of Element, and think it's a great upgrade from the Express. I have one in each of my theatres that range from about 80 to about 300 seats.

Are you certain you need 500 channels? If you don't, you may want to save some money by opting for the 250 channel version. Unlike your Express, the Eos line, multiple DMX addresses can be assigned to a single channel. A single fixture that uses 10 DMX addresses will still be on a single channel. If your theatre has anything like 250 fixtures and devices, then I'd question its being "small." And if I recall rightly, you can upgrade to the 500 channel version down the line if you find you truly need them.

I do like having the 60 submaster version, though. We run a lot of shows live here, and when you have different LED washes on separate red, green, and blue submasters, you can eat up faders quickly.

I would seriously consider the ColorSource console though, if I were purchasing for any of my smaller venues today. I haven't had any time with it, but it looks like a good fit for a small place with some LED. The rest of the members will have to speak to other boards.
 
I agree with everything that Kyle said! It is a great board and a good step up from the express. It is well made and the support for it is amazing. My high school currently only uses it when lighting something not in our theater as for that is for the ion. But I don't think you will need it as most high schools don't.
 
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Element is the current technology version of the Express series. You'll get everything you ever wished the old board could do, and a LOT more.

What version is really all about future growth, if any. Element as you probably know is a cut down Ion. If you might ever need more than 1024 addresses, mover encoders (wheel thingys), multiple cue lists, or networking or pixel mapping then look at the Ion.

I agree that 250 channels is probably enough for most high schools but the Ion features make it pretty common in my area schools. If you will ever have more than 250 lights then you probably want an Ion anyway. Plus the software upgrade is just entering a code later! Element can never do more than 500 channels or 1024 address.

I vote for 40 faders. The difference is whether you will always have 20 subs or whether you switch from channel to sub mode. To be honest most modern systems just use the key pad or groups or sub bumps or presets for setting levels. You don't get any more channel faders with the 60.

Do look at the ColorSource - much faster to learn, but not as feature laden, which can be a big benefit to a high school. I've taught the Element and Ion many drama teachers and they rarely really get deep into the possibilities.
 
Hey guys thanks for the response, 1 reason I went with the 500 is I want to somewhat future proof, as in avoid a channel limit down the road.

That being said, I a little more about us and our venue, we are a small theatre company, based in a historical building that seats roughly 240. Even though we are mostly volunteer driven, I do try my damnedest to put on amazing shows, and keep up with industry trends. I am working on adding more and more lights, with each grant we get. I am trying to move mostly to LED lights for a couple of reasons, 1. we are an older building, electrical demand could become an issue, 2. some hanging positions are not easily reached, so swapping out gels, while not impossible, can be very time consuming, 3. it saves me have to figure out dimmers, and how to run cables.

So this partially why I want to make sure I have plenty of channels, I also try to run as many things as possible (within reason) via DMX, like fog machines, spotlights, etc.

I will need to look at the ColorSource, I do like the idea of more subs.

If it is possible to upgrade down the road, I like that idea a lot.
 
Ok, ColorSource, seems really basic/minimalist... am I wrong? I really like my express, so I would like to stick with the next evolution of that....

Thanks for you guys continued help.
 
Ok, ColorSource, seems really basic/minimalist... am I wrong? I really like my express, so I would like to stick with the next evolution of that....

Thanks for you guys continued help.

I would say it's more for smaller venues or ones just staring with the new digital world!
 
Yeah, a serious theater can use the Eos features.

No need to future proof your channel count, just buy the extras when you need them.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
If you're future proofing, I'd be more worried about the address count than the channel count. 3 Source 4 Revolutions eat 3 channels, but consume 93 addresses, and unlike the Ion and friends, Element can't ever go beyond 1024 addresses.

I agree. I'm laying out two high school systems currently both based on Colorsource fixtures one, with 100 or 120 units - will not be comfortable on an Element I am concerned - with relay and house-work-utility lighting controls. It might work out of the box but rent some movers for a show and it could be tight, not to mention the data wrangling necessary.

I also agree with the 60 slider version - easier than so much paging.

Colorsource consoles are kind of interesting - and the currently held up AV models have some inter-sting features - but really limited channel count for all but very small venues. 20 or 40 or double that by paging (ugh). Also if users are use to other ways of operating, relearning is sometimes tough. Good for smaller churches and clubs without preconceived ideas of how a console operates.
 
I think the Element is a great console for its price. I will say this about it, it handles LED lights pretty much as easily as an ION/GIO/EOS but moving lights are more cumbersome because of the lack of encoder wheels and programming buttons on the console surface. That said, it's still way easier to program movers on an element than it EVER was on an Express.

The other thing that I miss when working on an Element (as opposed to ION/GIO/EOS) is the lack of network/client features. I really like being able to have a client running on my laptop during the final dress rehearsals while I move around the house and have the ability to make small "tweeks" live without have to take pages of notes.

I would also concur with Bob above that you are likely to run out DMX addresses before you run out of control channels. For example, you could have a S4 Led profile spot (possibility of 15 addresses) on a Right arm (4 addresses) with a DMX iris (2 channels) that is all on one channels but uses 21 addresses. Most moving lights these days can eat up between 20 and 35 channels of DMX per fixure.

In terms of future-proofing, I think that is a bit of an elusive thing to achieve. Technology is changing fast and I think that the days of buying an entry-level console and getting 15-20 years out of it are a thing of the past. I will say that ETC has veen really aggresive in keeping the EOS series software up-to-date. There seems to be a major release almost every year. So far, the older EOS XP-based consoles have been able to keep up with the software revisions. Considering that the original EOS/ION line is now actually just about 10 years old, I would be curious to ponder what, if anything, is in the works. If you spent $12,000 on a tricked out ION, would make sense it to spend the $2000-$3000 to make processor or other hardware upgrades when that becomes necessary. For the $4,000-ish price of the Element, it makes much less sense.
 
The tricked out ION is about 4 or 5 S4LEDs with lens tubes. I think the console has to be treated like a PC - not a real long live. I worry more about how long a theatre full of today's newest and best led fixtures will last. The fixtures are more like 10 - 20 times the ION class console.
 
Over on the ETC forum an unofficial statement was made, that no features were planned that the older (XP) hardware couldn't support. That could change with some new idea, but it gives you a glimpse as to how long the Eos platform might survive.

Hmm, a Puck like computer, dongle, programming wing, fader wing and monitors. Could be upgraded piecemeal like fixture inventories.
 
I like the ION software with a dongle too. Laptop or Nomad, now wings or many, all at once or over time. It provides a lot for a little bit less than the desk. However it made me realize that the desk is not that expensive.
 
In most sub-professional environments (with no budget for a tracking backup), I have always been in the minority who would choose a PC version with on-pc wings over the "real" version, even if they were the same price (which they often are, all said and done).

My reasoning has always been that if an "unrealiable" PC craps out twenty minutes before the show, you can guarantee someone has a laptop in the trunk of their car that can get you up and running within 10 minutes.
If your "reliable" console craps out twenty minutes before a show, it's unlikely that there is a replacement within an hours drive.

Then again, for very small venues with no staff TD to oversee the system, I would recommend the real console - because there is a bigger chance that human error will destroy the setup ("Let me just borrow this keyboard and mouse.") than the console becoming ill on its own.

In short, if budget is no option and the team knows their stuff, go for a console & tracking backup.
If budget is tight and the team knows their stuff, go for PC & wings.
If budget is tight but the team is mostly inexperienced, go for a less expensive, real console.
 
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Just remember, the 500 in the ETC has nothing to do with DMX address, just means in basic terms, 500 fixtures. 1 LED fixture that takes up 7 DMX addresses, still only counts as 1 channel. Also, you can always pay the fee to upgrade from the 250 should you need to.
 
Upgraded from an Express to the Element last year. At the time when we bought it, we had no movers (for obvious reasons). But now with what we've been able to do with the Element, in contrast, has got me wanting to implement some movers. Right now I have a few LED bars that have tilt. It's really not so bad to just use the mouse wheel for these.

I have not gotten into the depths of everything in the console, but I love what I've been able to do with it. I have 500 channels, 1024 address, and 40 faders. As far as addresses vs channels go, I am more worried about maxing out by address count before my channel count. And that would also be after some consolidation. At that point, I think I would just ask for a new console. And I think that is years down the road anyway.

Long story short: I am an active user of the Element and it's amazing for the "small venue." I also feel that it's under-priced (which I'm not complaining about).

Things to note:
-You CAN run a host/client setup. Just need the dongle (without it, you can run a mirror mode, which will at least show you whats going on).
-Element uses OSC. This is nice because you can use tools such as TouchOSC in order to remote focus and other things. ETC even has template/tools for this on github. Check it out.
-The new Element ships with Windows 7, not XP.
-There is no option for a programming wing (which is the biggest pain point for me, I even talked to the ETC guys at NAB about it--- I don't see how hard it would be to develop a USB device to at least give you the option for encoders).

Anyway, I think you'll be very pleased to have this as an upgrade to your current board.
 

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