ETC Element: Troubleshooting and Cyc Lights

Hey, alright so I've got 2 questions, and I'm hoping someone is able to help out!

First, I'll give you some background; I'm a HS Student who is COMPLETELY in charge of our lighting system, so going to ask my teacher/director for help isn't really worth the time. We have a less than 2 -year-old ECT Element 60-500 board.

So my first question is probably much easier than the other, but does anyone know if we have enough Cyc Lights? The stage (the visable part at least) is about 60' across by 20' tall, and we have a total of 8 Altman Cyc lights (sorry, I don't know the exact model, if there are multiple kinds). They hang from a fly bar and are about 4-5 feet from the cyc at their furthest distance (probably not ideal, I know).
Anyway, we are doing Legally Blonde and we are going to attempt to use the lights for the first time, except not on a cyc. We will be using them to light a backdrop, all neutral colors, that will look like a sky (very similar to the Broadway production, if anyone has seen it).
Is this even plausible? We would like to have a RGBW pallet to pick from, but i dont know that 2 lights will cover the whole drop.
Any ideas or suggestions? -Could we Possibly limit our color pallet to be able to use only those lights?

Part Two: We have spontaneously had over 15 of our Fresnel's stop working (not 100% sure if it was all at once, or over a period of time, but we noticed it randomly very recently). I'm led to believe that the lamps have died, but I also feel like these have died much too quickly. We do use the lights during our rehearsals, school assemblies, ceremonies, ect. But we have only had them for, as I said less than two years. Does this sound like it might be our problem?
We checked the patching, nothing wrong there, and have also put every channel to full whit no results. I have not going up to the fixtures themselves (lots of doors need to be unlocked by keys that I do not have, so I would like to see if its worth the trouble to go up and physically check them out.) I also have not called the company, who has been nothing but amazing while we've needed to troubleshoot in the past. Again, any ideas?? We have our first show of Blonde in less than a month and we're hoping we dont have to do it in the dark!

Thank you so much for your help!
 
Welcome to the Booth!

First off, 8 Cyc lights aren't going to adequately cover a 60 foot drop. You're going to have to look for alternate solutions on that front (rent more fixtures from a rental company, find some scoops or something to pick up the slack there etc..)

Part two: If you've checked that everything is patched correctly, and there's no break in the data chain (DMX coming out of the back of the Element) then your issue is most likely the lamps, in which case you'd need to find those keys and replace them.

Hope that helps!
 
Is there a reason you can't just pull the lights down and check the lamps? I mean, you did say you're completely in charge. That said, two years is pretty good for lamps that are used as both work & performance lighting. I recommend that moving forward, try to allocate some par cans as work lights if available. The lamps in them are much more robust.

About the Cyc lights: are they single cell? three cell? Something else? 8 3-cell units would about cover it, but 8 single-cell would not do well if alternating colors. It seems that you are alluding that you have eight single-cell cyc lights but you didn't expressly state that.

Here's a rough formula for cyc lights: the distance between each like-color should be about one-and-a-half times the distance from the cyc (maximum; preferably less) for optimal coverage. In your case, each like-color shouldn't be placed more than about 5-8 (max) feet apart.
 
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...we have a total of 8 Altman Cyc lights ... about 4-5 feet from the cyc ...
Sounds like you have 8 single-cell SkyCyc fixtures,
207_ALTMAN_SKY_CYC.jpg
in which case, spaced about 7' apart across 60', all you can do is one color. Even then, some scalloping will occur. The good news is you won't have to buy color media for them, since with only one color you might as well just leave them open white, although diffusion media, either tough silk or light frost, may help them blend and cover better.

... We have spontaneously had over 15 of our Fresnel's stop working (not 100% sure if it was all at once, or over a period of time, but we noticed it randomly very recently). I'm led to believe that the lamps have died, ...
If the non-functioning Fresnels are the 6" Altman 65Q or 165Q, they're probably using either the 500W BTL or the 750W BTN. Both are 500 hour lamps, so it's quite conceivable they'd all have failed after two years of "rehearsals, school assemblies, ceremonies, ect."
You may also have socket arcing issues, see this recent thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/29775-mpf-socket-corrosion-has-got-stop.html and others at search results for 65Q socket.
 
Thank you so much! When you said alternative solutions, sorry if this is a dumb question but what are scoops? We have talked about renting more fixtures, but if there's an adding that could possibly give us a more perms any solution, is this it? And I have checked all of that, and still no solutions, any ideas on how much they will cost to replace? I believe the district will replace them for us though which is a plus. Thank you, again!

reason I can't just take down the lights is because they are mostly all either only reachable with a genie lift or through going up into the catwalk which, as you can imagine, they keep pretty well protected. As for the cyc lightS, I do believe they are single cell. That formula really helps out though! Thank you!

I will read into the socket ing issue as well, but I'm pretty convinced that it is the bulbs. :/

On a side note: the head-honcho lighting rep from the district (who is, lets just say slightly unqualified for his position) kept trying to tell me something about being in the wrong universe. I believe he was talking about the a-b system, with multiple lights on a single address, I could be wrong though. He wasn't making much sense to me, and had no way of explaining himself, so I left him to continue re-booting the board for the 5th time to see if that was the problem. Any ideas as to what he was talking about or if that could be an issue at all?
 
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What is the "a-b system"? A universe refers to addresses. A universe consists of up to 512 addresses. Example: your dimmers could be on universe 1 and intelligent fixtures could be on universe 2; but there are many ways to go about this. There's not really enough info provided to see how your system is set up or what the problem is.

Re: cost of replacement depends on a few factors. 3-cell Altman cyc lights generally cost between $700 and $800, but you'd also need to look at whether or not you have enough channels on your pipe to support them.

Somewhat decent Wikipedia definition of a Scoop. They make great work lights due to their ability to project a smooth, broad wash of light and they generally use relatively long-life lamps. Since they blend so well, they're also great for general overhead washes of light/color.
 
We do have a good number of LEDs (15 spots and 18 strips). They light out stage very well with excellent colors. Could they be on a different universe? And could we possibly use these instead of cyc lights and get somewhat good effects?
Also, would you recommend changing all of our lamps at the same time? Or wait for them to go out, and then change them?
 
Yes, you can try using your LED strips to light the cyc. That's actually a pretty good option as long as you have enough of them. What length are these strips? It's hard to give a definitive answer without actually seeing the situation. Just try it out and see if it works.

The pars would not be the best cyc lighting option unless you're trying a specific creative look.

It is possible that these LEDs are on the other universe. Since you have so many devices, it is entirely possible that they were put there so they could have room for control of each fixture's attributes. It isn't necessarily a "rule", but it is a "best practice" in many circumstances.

Replacing lamps is usually done on an as-needed fixture-by-fixture basis in most spaces. Full relamps can be done (working or not), but it is not generally cost effective unless the units are difficult to get to. This thread might be of interest: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-lamp-replacement-schedule-hard-get-pipe.html.
 
The LED strips are (guessing here) about 4 feet each? They are permanently set up into three rows along 3 different fly bars. The pattern alternates strip and spot, with 6 strips and 5 spots on each. However, the LEDs are not very close to the bar we will be using for the cyc and it were almost definitely going to need them to light actors/ scenery. Would it make sense to just light the stage with a stronger intensity on the LEDs?

As for the universes, I don't think this is out issue, as we do still have about a third of our other lights working.
Thank you for the other thread too!

By the way, I talked to the director today, we are going to be calling the company that we used to Rey our lights from (before we got our new system) and see if they're able to go off our system and get us some more cyc lights. So that issue might be resolved anyway!
 
You should also see if the vendor who sold you your current lights can come in and provide some answers/training. It sounds like theres a lot going on in your space that you don't entirely understand, and before spending money adding more stuff to the system, you should figure out how to use what you have.
 
Just an update: The main issue WAS the lamps! they were all out! before the district came and replaced them, we only had 10 lights working out of the 35+ we have in our system.
 

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