That's unacceptable IMO. That software should be available on their website to download by anyone who needs it. What are you supposed to do if your hard drive craps out?

That is pretty standard for this kind of stuff. If your hard drive on a console craps out would you have the know how to actually change it without it going in for a service call somewhere anyway? Just playing devils advocate, because its jumping from messing up software to opening up a console and potentially screwing up hardware inside. If you aren't a certified etc service person they won't like you doing that either.
 
Curious as to what other manufacturers have the desk OS available on the website as a download ?

The company has the right to retain control over who has access and how the end user uses the software, to a certain extent. Nobody doubts that should your HD fail that ETC tech support is going all out to get your console up and running ASAP, that’s been documented over the years by the countless thank-you’s I’ve read from folks in that situation. If you bricked the OS on your Honda Civic, are you able to go to the Honda website and download a clean OS for user install ?. I don’t think so, that’s going to be a huge bill from the dealer.

A user accessing the Admin level of OS when ETC specifically doesn’t release that password, is asking for trouble.
MA offers a full image as a download option.

That being said, I will say that ETC does provide reimaging kits in some circumstances. I wouldn't take this as permission to mess around on the system, but just to counter the arguments that reimaging requires bringing the console to a local service providers.

The biggest reason not to mess around/login is admin on a console is that there's really not much worth doing if you do so. The OS is super stripped down and there's not really anything useful once you get there. If for whatever reason you decide you want to get creative/play around, I'd recommend using industry standard disk imaging tools to make yourself a clone/image/backup of the drive before you go adventuring, so that if you do manage to break things in new and interesting ways you have a good known state to restore to.
 
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Curious as to what other manufacturers have the desk OS available on the website as a download ?

The company has the right to retain control over who has access and how the end user uses the software, to a certain extent. Nobody doubts that should your HD fail that ETC tech support is going all out to get your console up and running ASAP, that’s been documented over the years by the countless thank-you’s I’ve read from folks in that situation. If you bricked the OS on your Honda Civic, are you able to go to the Honda website and download a clean OS for user install ?. I don’t think so, that’s going to be a huge bill from the dealer.

A user accessing the Admin level of OS when ETC specifically doesn’t release that password, is asking for trouble.

Completely different things. To program a cars computer you need specialized equipment. A modern lighting console is basically just a standard pc in a special case and some custom peripherals. And I would guess that most of us have or could build a computer. Again I'm not suggesting anyone go in and mess with setting they shouldn't be. But stuff happens. Could be a student, employee, or volunteer just being curious and looking around. And if the password really is a simple as was posted earlier in this thread then I wouldn't put it past some bored person to try a couple passwords like that.

That is pretty standard for this kind of stuff. If your hard drive on a console craps out would you have the know how to actually change it without it going in for a service call somewhere anyway? Just playing devils advocate, because its jumping from messing up software to opening up a console and potentially screwing up hardware inside. If you aren't a certified etc service person they won't like you doing that either.

I absolutely would. We've had our AVO Pearl torn apart and put it back together with newer hardware. It's been upgraded twice now. Instead of buying a new desk you can buy an upgrade kit from them that will bring your old console up to current standards. The first upgrade got us off the old AVO classic software and running Titan. And this last one included much more powerful hardware to run the built in visualizer. You can pay a dealer to install it, or they'll send you the parts with a well done instruction manual. And should the hard drive fail I can go to their website, login and download the full OS. You submit some pictures and such to prove that you are actually in possession of the console and they'll let you download the file right away. It's only activated for two weeks, and during that time someone will verify that you actually do have the console, it's not listed as stolen, etc. Once they've done that they'll send you a permanent activation key. As far as warranty goes, that's only good for a couple of years. And if it's a matter of having my console to use that night or not, then I don't really care if they're happy or not that I opened it up. Are you not allowed to open them and clean them either? I'm not at all a fan of way things seem to be headed in that direction for everything. If it's my hardware I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it.
 
That is pretty standard for this kind of stuff. If your hard drive on a console craps out would you have the know how to actually change it without it going in for a service call somewhere anyway? Just playing devils advocate, because its jumping from messing up software to opening up a console and potentially screwing up hardware inside. If you aren't a certified etc service person they won't like you doing that either.

ETC publishes youtube videos on how to open up your ion and reseat hardware. They "protect" the original eos hardware with a grand total of two flathead screws. There's nothing very magical once you're inside. Replacing a hard drive in a PC is not an esoteric skill that should require third party involvement, they are moving parts and they die.
 
ETC publishes youtube videos on how to open up your ion and reseat hardware. They "protect" the original eos hardware with a grand total of two flathead screws. There's nothing very magical once you're inside. Replacing a hard drive in a PC is not an esoteric skill that should require third party involvement, they are moving parts and they die.
I have no problem with doing any of that (and a good portion of us around here probably wouldn't have an issue) But I do know people who have wrecked a computer or console because they thought they had a clue, tore into it and then had to replace it after they couldn't put it back together. For someone who's built a computer its not esoteric but there are still too many people that think it runs on hamster wheels, thats why a lot of companies would prefer that type of user to stay away from it.
 
My what a spirited discussion this has become. I just want to clear up a few potential misunderstandings as the discussion continues.

... A modern lighting console is basically just a standard pc in a special case and some custom peripherals. And I would guess that most of us have or could build a computer. Again I'm not suggesting anyone go in and mess with setting they shouldn't be. But stuff happens. ...
... Nobody doubts that should your HD fail that ETC tech support is going all out to get your console up and running ASAP, that’s been documented over the years by the countless thank-you’s I’ve read from folks in that situation. ...
This is true, if you suffer a hardware failure due to no fault of your own, ETC is going to do what we can to get you going again as fast as we can. Sometimes that is a re-image kit, sometimes that is a loaner to use while your console is in for repair.
If you do cause the hardware to fail, we'll still do our best to help you out of the jam that you are in, but of course it certainly wouldn't be covered under warranty and there may be some cost associated.

Could be a student, employee, or volunteer just being curious and looking around. ... I wouldn't put it past some bored person....
A user accessing the Admin level of OS when ETC specifically doesn’t release that password, is asking for trouble.
Steve is right. I can count on one hand the number of support calls in the last 10 years that I've needed to use the administrative area to solve a problem and none of those were short calls. The most common cause of trouble in that area however is boredom.

...
I absolutely would. ... As far as warranty goes, that's only good for a couple of years. And if it's a matter of having my console to use that night or not, then I don't really care if they're happy or not that I opened it up. Are you not allowed to open them and clean them either?
You are absolutely able to open them, clean them, and perform regular maintenance on the hardware. In fact, we encourage it. See:
ETC publishes youtube videos on how to open up your ion and reseat hardware. They "protect" the original eos hardware with a grand total of two flathead screws. There's nothing very magical once you're inside. ...

...
I'm not at all a fan of way things seem to be headed in that direction for everything. If it's my hardware I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it.

It should be noted that ETC is not stopping you from doing whatever you want with the hardware that you own. We just can't support changes made to the hardware that we haven't taken into account when designing the product. We take an unbelievably long amount of time to decide on which hardware components that are used in the consoles and we do so with serviceability and longevity in mind. The same goes for software. We spend a lot of time and money on software development and testing to try to make sure that the intended software functions work as expected.

As I said before, if you make changes, you are essentially "jailbreaking" your console. Your console's hardware and software are like an ecosystem that has been balanced for optimal lighting control The changes you make may work or they may cause it to fail spectacularly, but because you have decided to make changes that are unsupported, you are responsible for taking the corrective action required when those changes have unintended consequences. Depending on the severity of the change, sometimes the corrective action will require purchasing the tools and/or services needed to restore the ecosystem. And, often, the biggest cost is time.

A final note on hardware replacement:
When it comes to replacing a drive, we encourage you to order the replacement from ETC (through your ETC Dealer) or send in the console for repair, not because it isn't something that an end-user couldn't do, but because (as we have painfully discovered) drive quality is a fickle thing and we want to ensure that the physical hardware is going to last.
 
My what a spirited discussion this has become. I just want to clear up a few potential misunderstandings as the discussion continues.


This is true, if you suffer a hardware failure due to no fault of your own, ETC is going to do what we can to get you going again as fast as we can. Sometimes that is a re-image kit, sometimes that is a loaner to use while your console is in for repair.
If you do cause the hardware to fail, we'll still do our best to help you out of the jam that you are in, but of course it certainly wouldn't be covered under warranty and there may be some cost associated.



Steve is right. I can count on one hand the number of support calls in the last 10 years that I've needed to use the administrative area to solve a problem and none of those were short calls. The most common cause of trouble in that area however is boredom.


You are absolutely able to open them, clean them, and perform regular maintenance on the hardware. In fact, we encourage it. See:




It should be noted that ETC is not stopping you from doing whatever you want with the hardware that you own. We just can't support changes made to the hardware that we haven't taken into account when designing the product. We take an unbelievably long amount of time to decide on which hardware components that are used in the consoles and we do so with serviceability and longevity in mind. The same goes for software. We spend a lot of time and money on software development and testing to try to make sure that the intended software functions work as expected.

As I said before, if you make changes, you are essentially "jailbreaking" your console. Your console's hardware and software are like an ecosystem that has been balanced for optimal lighting control The changes you make may work or they may cause it to fail spectacularly, but because you have decided to make changes that are unsupported, you are responsible for taking the corrective action required when those changes have unintended consequences. Depending on the severity of the change, sometimes the corrective action will require purchasing the tools and/or services needed to restore the ecosystem. And, often, the biggest cost is time.

A final note on hardware replacement:
When it comes to replacing a drive, we encourage you to order the replacement from ETC (through your ETC Dealer) or send in the console for repair, not because it isn't something that an end-user couldn't do, but because (as we have painfully discovered) drive quality is a fickle thing and we want to ensure that the physical hardware is going to last.

Those sound like perfectly reasonable policies to me. Thanks for the info straight from the source.
 
ETC is an outlier for disk images. I ship all my consoles with a full disk image in case of extreme or catastrophic failure. This is a bit of an old attitude. I don't think a single one of those has been used on gig in at least 5 years, but it makes programmers a lot more comfortable knowing that it is there. I can't do this with my ETC consoles. As previously stated, that hasn't happened in a long time, and never with the EOS/ION software. It does stick in my craw that I have to treat those boards differently however. Every manufacturer has their own software and OS protections and agreements in place, so we have to play by those rules.
 

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