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ETC Expression 3 "Backward" Submaster

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by DHSLXOP, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. DHSLXOP

    DHSLXOP Active Member

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    Hi Everyone -

    I've been using the ETC Expression 3 at my school's theatre for the past couple years now, and, while a great board, I have been having one frustration with it lately - once I finish using submasters for a cueing session, and I take them back to zero, I have to individually type in the channel # of every light in order to lower the level if I want to make a change lower than the current light level. Is there a way to make a submaster go "backwards" so that I can change the level of all of the lights programmed into that sub?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    While I personally don't mind keying in channels (I find it faster in the long run), what you are looking for is an inhibitive submaster. When you record a sub on Expression you should be presented with as list of options. I don't remember the option numbers, but one will let you make the sub inhibitive, which means that when the fader is at full the channels are up, when you bring the fader down, the channels start to come down. I think you can change the mode of a sub after it is recorded, but I can't remember how. The only other way you might be able to do this is to make the sub LTP instead of HTP, but I don't know if you can do that on Expression.

    You might try a search for inhibitive submasters as I know that there are a couple threads about them. If you do choose to go the Inhibit route, you might want to make two subs for each group of lights one that functions normally and one that is inhibitive, that will give the most flexibility.
     
  3. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    From page 159 of Expression_3_v3.1_User_Manual.pdf:

    Note that channels in an inhibitive sub have no level (displayed level is "IN"), and can only be assigned to one inhibitive sub at a time.
     
  4. doctrjohn

    doctrjohn Active Member

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    If you are in the cue you want to tweak, using the keypad to enter [Group][Sub][whatever sub you need to tweak][At] will give you the ability to adjust just those channels recorded in that particular sub.

    Hope this helps.

    Best,
    John
     
  5. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    If you select mutable channels that have different intensities (Select all front light and blue is at 75, pink is at 50) and scroll down on the wheel it will bring down in the same proportion. (bring it down so blue was at 50, then pink would be at 25.)
     
  6. coolbeam

    coolbeam Member

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    If the blue level is reduced by 33% (from 75 to 50), why is the pink reduced by 50% (from 50 to 25), instead of 33% also?
     
  7. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Because it JUST IS !, OK, NO reason, it just IS , Jeez, can't you just learn to accept it ?.

    (Grin)

    SB
     
  8. LightStud

    LightStud Active Member

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    What you are looking for cannot be done with HTP masters. Inhibitive masters are not exactly the answer either. The problem you are experiencing is inherent in all consoles prior to the ETC Element/Ion/Eos, and is a good reason to use the keypad and wheel when setting (and editing, as it's the ONLY way to decrease) levels.

    See the Sarah Claussen demo of the Element video for the explanation of LTP masters.
     
  9. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    :rolleyes: psh... well if you have to be technical... Yea.. I had just woke up, and my math made sense in my head.
     
  10. coolbeam

    coolbeam Member

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    No, your explanation was entirely accurate regarding the actions of the level wheel. However, if you were to use the grandmaster instead, you would get a different result. Try it!
     
  11. DHSLXOP

    DHSLXOP Active Member

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    So if I'm understanding what you guys are saying, basically, there's no way to do exactly what I'm looking for, but there are some similar concepts?

    I'll look into those! Thanks for the help!
     
  12. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Lets see if I understand this:

    - You built cues off of subs. The subs are now at a level of zero and all levels are generated by recorded cue levels. You want to selectively grab assorted channels and lower the values (or raise) of the channels grouped into and set by that sub.

    DrJohn has it correct:

    - The syntax is Group - Sub - XX - At, using the wheel or + / - keys to set new levels. Then hit Update Enter. This will adjust up/down the values as established by the sub(s). In lieu of having an inhibit sub, you can also hit Group - Sub - 1 - Thru - Group - Sub - 24 - At, then wheel/pad it down proportionately. Using the +/- keys does not adjust proportionately, where the wheel/pad does.

    SB
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  13. DHSLXOP

    DHSLXOP Active Member

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    This seems like it might work for me...even though its still more keystrokes than I was hoping for, it seems to be MUCH fewer buttons than entering every channel that is programmed into the sub.

    Thanks!
     
  14. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    If your fronts are too hot, 1 [THRU] 10 [AT] wheel or something like that isn't too hard. Or "... [AT] [8] [0]" isn't that hard either. You do have your channel hookup in a logical way, right?
     
  15. DHSLXOP

    DHSLXOP Active Member

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    No...Its weird, but we have two "pipes" for front light (we can put more lights under each other) like:
    ___
    XYZ
    ___
    ABC
    But only 1 raceway above the top "pipe" to plug the fixtures in...so all of the top pipe is front wash, and the bottom is for specials/gobos/effects/etc.

    So:
    The front warm may be in 2, 5, 8, 10, 16
    The front cool may be in 3, 7, 9, 14, 15
    And There are specials in 1, 4, 6, 11, 12, and 13

    So its not just 1 thru 10 at 80...I either have to use a Sub or enter each channel individually...

    Sadly, we rent the theatre (and only have like 4 days before the show opens for tech week), so there's very little time for moving things around...its just how the theatre works...
     
  16. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    That is why we have the luxury of softpatch. Next time you work in that space you can just softpatch your dimmers to a logical channel order. This will cut down on keystrokes.
     
  17. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Sounds pretty typical. Softpatch would make your life there a whole lot easier -- you can write and edit cues with channel numbers that are related to the function a light does rather than its physical location or the hole it's plugged in to. For me, fronts are 1-10, backs are 11-20, sides are 21-30 and 31-40, special scenic systems are in the 40s (things like special colorwash systems), specials are in the 50s, templates in the 60s, colorwashes in the 70s, and then on up depending on what the show needs, up to worklights, warmers, and houselights in usually the last three channels on the board, or otherwise some really high easy-to-remember numbers (like house=500 on a limitless board).

    In your case, you could put warm fronts on 1-5, cool fronts on 11-15, and your six specials on 21-26, for example -- even though they're physically plugged into the holes you mentioned earlier.
     
  18. willbb123

    willbb123 Active Member

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    Make a soft-patch, program lights into groups, then make a magic sheet. This will make the board SO much easier.

    I use an Expression 3 daily. If you have any quick questions feel feel to PM, or email me.
     

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