Conventional Fixtures ETC goes BakPak !

[derekleffew]

ETC Products - Source Four Dimmer

I'm sure we'll be seeing these all over North America soon!
(I guess I'll need a buck/boost to get the required 230V input from my 208V supply?)

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The Source Four Dimmer™ fits any conventional Source Four® by attaching easily to the burner assembly, ...

I must be mistaken, but it sure looks to me like the device attaches to the yolk , not the burner assembly.

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DMX thru is not self-terminating

Why, why, why? ETC was doing so well with the Revolution, SmartPack, and Desire units.

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[tayklor]

From what I've seen, the whip from the burner assembly is hard wired into the dimmer assembly. To add a dimmer, I'd imagine that the standard burner cap must be removed and replaced with that integrated into the dimmer.

 

[derekleffew]

Okay then. I'll wait until I need to replace all the sockets in my existing lamp caps before buying these.

I'm surprised and somewhat disheartened that the "article" (*cough* regurgitated press release) at http://www.plsn.com/product-news/9957-etc-120v-source-four-dimmer.html explains things much better than the ETC site. PLSN.com doesn't seem to enjoy Firefox 15 so I had to use Chrome. Safari works too.

 

[SteveB]

I hope it can mount to something other then the instrument yoke, c-clamp would be nice.

I hate to have to swap a fixture and be required to dis-mount the dimmer.

First thing I'd be doing is adding a set of 2P&G connectors, though I'm wondering if that's verboten for some code/UL reason.

 

[Footer]

Now all that is left is for them to come out with a "theatrical grade" breaker panel that is not just a sensor rack with non-dim modules.

Granted, this product is nothing new. I guess we are now swinging back to distributed dimming. Guess it is time to buy more e-tape to put a DMX cable on every SO cable.

 

[DrPinto]

So this is basically a little shoebox dimmer mounted to each fixture? What's the advantage of doing this?

 

[avkid]

So this is basically a little shoebox dimmer mounted to each fixture? What's the advantage of doing this?

So you don't have to haul around a dimmer if there are only a few fixtures.

 

[chausman]

So this is basically a little shoebox dimmer mounted to each fixture? What's the advantage of doing this?

Flexibility. Going from one show with 45 fixtures in the cats and nothing on stage, to another show with nothing in the cats and everything onstage. Or the ability to add more fixtures at a later date without adding a new dimmer rack. Also cut cost slightly. It's theoretically less copper to run a long distance.

If you do a search, it's been discussed before.

 

[Footer]

Flexibility. Going from one show with 45 fixtures in the cats and nothing on stage, to another show with nothing in the cats and everything onstage. Or the ability to add more fixtures at a later date without adding a new dimmer rack. Also cut cost slightly. It's theoretically less copper to run a long distance.

If you do a search, it's been discussed before.

And more failure points and more labor. With RDM it gets a bit easier, but is still a bit of a pain compared to installed dimming.

The real point here is when you have a 80% LED rig and want a few tungstun units for "white" light, you don't have to bring in a dimmer rack and traditional distribution to run those lights. You can now just grab a few S4's with dimmers on them and insert them in your rig. This is a sign (to me at least) that ETC sees themselves in the short term no longer installing traditional dimming. Instead, they will install power/data distribution and control will be local to the fixture instead of in a closet 3 floors above the stage. So, you buy a rig of D60's, LED S4's, seledor strips, and a handful of these fixtures and you are set. If you are paying attention to what Steve Terry is submitting to the NEC it all revolves around non-dimmed power distribution.

From the NEC 2013 Amendments:

Submitter: Steven R. Terry, Electronic Theatre Controls Inc. / Rep. US
Institute for Theatre Technology - Engineering Commission
Recommendation: Add the following definition to Section 520.2.
Switchboard, Stage Lighting. A switchboard containing dimmers or relays
with associated overcurrent protective devices, or overcurrent protective
devices alone, used to feed stage lighting equipment.
Substantiation: Modern stage lighting has moved rapidly from tungsten
luminaires fed from dimmers to arc-source or LED luminaires fed from
constant power and controlled by a data connection directly to the luminaire.
Thus, a stage lighting switchboard in a modern system is just as likely to be a
circuit breaker panel as a dimmer system or relay cabinet. This definition is
needed to cover these types of modern usage.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Add the following definitions to 520.2:
Stage equipment. Equipment at any location on the premises integral to the
stage production, including but not limited to equipment for lighting, audio,
special effects, rigging, motion control, projection or video.
Stage Switchboard. A switchboard, panelboard, or rack containing dimmers or
relays with associated overcurrent protective devices, or overcurrent protective
devices alone, used primarily to feed stage equipment.
Panel Statement: Stage equipment is no longer limited to lighting equipment.
Stage switchboards are required to supply a wide variety of production-related
equipment, not just lighting equipment. Revised and added definitions to
accomplish the intent of the submitter.
Number Eligible to Vote: 18
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 17
Ballot Not Returned: 1 Krupa, G

This has been done before. Lex makes a product just like this. Strand/ET have had a product on the market since at least 2006 that does this exact thing. It has been in the CB wiki since January: backpack dimmer - ControlBooth. Strands offering is large enough that you can two-fer another fixture onto it.

 

[SteveB]

Now all that is left is for them to come out with a "theatrical grade" breaker panel that is not just a sensor rack with non-dim modules.

SmartSwitch

Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

I believe the breakers are fully rated.


I'm also curious as to which is more cost effective. A larger room full of motorized and DMX controlled standard breaker panels, only having fully rated breakers, or a smaller room with Sensor racks. One of the nice things about the Sensor racks is you get a lot of circuits in very little horizontal space. Standard breaker panels do not make good use of the vertical space in a room and they are generally not designed to stack vertically.

But I agree that I think ETC is thinking long term for when LED's will be much more common. As well, these things might be a hit with the TV and Film location folks.

 

[chausman]

Distributed dimming.
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[DrPinto]

If you do a search, it's been discussed before.

Search what? I thought this was something new. Up to my post, nobody used the term "Backpack Dimmer".

 

[derekleffew]

... Up to my post, nobody used the term "Backpack Dimmer".

Except in the thread title, which was Derek's feeble attempt to needle ETC about "copying" another manufacturer's product. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread (much of it perpetrated by Derek), but correcting the fallacies of the Interwebs is probably best left to a representative of ETC.

I wanted to title the thread "ETC goes bare back," but decided that would go against the family-friendly nature of ControlBooth.
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[Footer]

It is rather fitting for Columbus day weekend... "Look, we discovered something totally new!"....

 

[xander]

I see what you did there Footer, and I like it.

I am not a fan of these at first glance at all. The burner assembly hardwired to the dimmer? To use with the S4 Fresnel, you have to buy a whole new fresnel with the dimmer. You can't use it on any other brand's fixtures. This is a step backwards from the Philips/Strand Bak Pak...

I've used Bak Paks before, and the only time I have been thankful for them is when working in the Park Avenue Armory when we need to add a unit somewhere that isn't part of the main rig, we can grab a Bak Pak and a Show DMX receiver and you just saved up to 600ft of a/c, 600ft of data cable, and an hour of labor.

 

[DrPinto]

The real point here is when you have a 80% LED rig and want a few tungstun units for "white" light, you don't have to bring in a dimmer rack and traditional distribution to run those lights. You can now just grab a few S4's with dimmers on them and insert them in your rig.

Now that makes sense. If you already have switched power in the air and just want to add some conventionals, this makes life easy.

Another thing I'm interested in... The ETC link seems to be selling this "special dimmer" as the cure for lamp sing. Would putting the dimmer on the instrument help reduce lamp sing, or could you, in theory, have this "special dimmer" back stage in a rack and accomplish the same thing?

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Everything old is new again.

So now ETC has a Fresnel, an LED Source 4, and a backpack dimmer. Yup, I'm starting to worry about 12/21/2012.

 

[jmabray]

The real point here is when you have a 80% LED rig and want a few tungsten units for "white" light, you don't have to bring in a dimmer rack and traditional distribution to run those lights. You can now just grab a few S4's with dimmers on them and insert them in your rig. This is a sign (to me at least) that ETC sees themselves in the short term no longer installing traditional dimming. Instead, they will install power/data distribution and control will be local to the fixture instead of in a closet 3 floors above the stage. So, you buy a rig of D60's, LED S4's, seledor strips, and a handful of these fixtures and you are set. If you are paying attention to what Steve Terry is submitting to the NEC it all revolves around non-dimmed power distribution.

Yep. And if you look at the products that have come out in the recent past (CEM3 Power Control (It's not just a dimmer rack anymore) as well as the Thru-Power Module) you will see vast evidence of this.

 

[STEVETERRY]

Except in the thread title, which was Derek's feeble attempt to needle ETC about "copying" another manufacturer's product. There's a lot of misinformation in this thread (much of it perpetrated by Derek), but correcting the fallacies of the Interwebs is probably best left to a representative of ETC.

I wanted to title the thread "ETC goes bare back," but decided that would go against the family-friendly nature of ControlBooth.
.

Thank goodness for your restraint and good taste!

To clarify a few things:

1. The Source 4 Dimmer is not an SCR phase control dimmer or a transistorized reverse phase control dimmer like some other products on the market. It is a PWM Dimmer that is absolutely quiet (0dBA at 1m) and offers very high performance. Unlike other products, its acoustic performance is not affected by temperature.

2. The European 230V version offers the ability to use 115V HPL lamps in 230V markets. This results is a huge boost in photometric performance due to the smaller filament size of the 115V lamp.

3. THE ES750 version of the dimmer comes with connectors on both the input and output to allow use with other types of fixtures.

The Source 4 Dimmer is just one element of the evolving lighting system infrastructure that ETC sees for the future. If you'd like to hear more about this and other hot topics, please come and hear my talk at LDI "It's Not Easy Being Green." This happens on Friday October 19 and Saturday October 20 at 4PM PDT in the ETC Layers of Light Theatre at our booth.

ST

 

[TJCornish]

How many times the cost of the fixture is the dimmer?