Etc Nomad is a Cost crunch

HI
Im the TD of my highschool and a little while ago our old obssesion 1 died. The school then sent me and the Theather directer a quote for an element and asked if it would suit our needs. We said yes and then the school went quite.
A couple weeks later, they said the new board was comeing in. I was excited but when it arrived it was not the etc element but instead the etc smartfade. I was totally shocked. We run shows with many ques and looking more into the board and manual, makeing theather stacks seems so inpractial and i feel I am going to go crazy next year if i use it.
I found the reason for this is that there is a light and sound renovation comeing and there going to get a better board then, but I still dont want to use this while we wait.
I did some research and found the ETC nomad. Im not sure if we can still return the smartfade, but if we could, could we get the etc nomad for a similar price, but much more funcuntionality? It seems so form what i looked up. It seems we could get the nomad, the gadget, a touchscreen, and maybe a mac for a similar price as the smartfade 48.
Im just kinda pissed they made this decision with out asking the people who use the equipment.

Does anyone have opinions on this or the Etc nomad and touchscrean for use as a standalone console. It would only be for a year or two but its either that or the smartfade.

Thanks
-Max
 
I have been there and I feel you! Have you spoken to the administration yet to make sure that it wasn't a mistake someone made?
My recommendation would be to push for the Element now because that way they can't pass you over when it is time for the reno and why spend the money for a Nomad AND a Touchscreen monitor AND other stuff you need, all in we are likely half way to an element. In addition, a software console tends to be a bad idea in a school for teaching reasons (nothing really compares to physical sliders!)
a little while ago our old obssesion 1 died.
if you had an Obsession (I believe ETC's Highest end console at the time of mfg, but correct me if I am wrong) your system is likely too large for the Smartfade to handle, after all it is basically a 24/48 channel 2 scene-preset console.

At the end of the day the SmartFade really is the wrong console to replace an Obsession for so many reasons!

Some more info might allow us to help you better and make recommendations!
Number of Dimmers?
Do you have any movers or other non-intensity devices?
School Size?

//Riley
 
I have spoken to the admin and that switched the order on purpose. They did this because the county wanted the school to pay for the board. Our principal said they couldn't pay for it so they got a cheep one to last us till the renovation which is for 250 grand and played by the county. The county said they would get a high end board then.

As for the school size, its not large, but not to small either. There have been other mony issues as the drama dpt has been paying for the upkeep of auditorium and it hasn't been renovated fully since its construction in the 60s. At one point the school took all the schools lights as they had asbestos cords and promised replacements. They only gave us half to my knolage. Also our elipsoids are the wrong barrel length. We don't run a lot of dimmers or lights(though we need more). No movers or LEDs except one spot we borrow this is conventional and dmx controlled with a color scrooler.
My main concern is the complexity of the shows we run. Making cue stacks on the smartfade as it has no moniters is a real pain and it is hard to go through the show to fix things. This wouldn't be too long term, about a year or so, but I'd is nessacary because we need something for shows next year. Its just me as the programmer and my sanity if we run musacals as we have been, with a fair number of cues.
The smartfade CAN make cues, and maybe enough, but is seems like so much of a pain it seems we would have to make our shows less complex or run in 2scean mode or something.

Its not like were working on a superprofessional leval as most knolage is passed on by students but there are a couple who are thinking about doing this professionally. I've learned mostly by trial and error and help from a lot of experts(one a guy who wroght and sells a vector works manual).
Also I felt I could have preatty smoothly transitioned from the obsession to the element but this seems ridiculous.

Thanks again for your help
-Max
 
I have spoken to the admin and that switched the order on purpose. They did this because the county wanted the school to pay for the board. Our principal said they couldn't pay for it so they got a cheep one to last us till the renovation which is for 250 grand and played by the county. The county said they would get a high end board then.

As for the school size, its not large, but not to small either. There have been other mony issues as the drama dpt has been paying for the upkeep of auditorium and it hasn't been renovated fully since its construction in the 60s. At one point the school took all the schools lights as they had asbestos cords and promised replacements. They only gave us half to my knolage. Also our elipsoids are the wrong barrel length. We don't run a lot of dimmers or lights(though we need more). No movers or LEDs except one spot we borrow this is conventional and dmx controlled with a color scrooler.
My main concern is the complexity of the shows we run. Making cue stacks on the smartfade as it has no moniters is a real pain and it is hard to go through the show to fix things. This wouldn't be too long term, about a year or so, but I'd is nessacary because we need something for shows next year. Its just me as the programmer and my sanity if we run musacals as we have been, with a fair number of cues.
The smartfade CAN make cues, and maybe enough, but is seems like so much of a pain it seems we would have to make our shows less complex or run in 2scean mode or something.

Its not like were working on a superprofessional leval as most knolage is passed on by students but there are a couple who are thinking about doing this professionally. I've learned mostly by trial and error and help from a lot of experts(one a guy who wroght and sells a vector works manual).
Also I felt I could have preatty smoothly transitioned from the obsession to the element but this seems ridiculous.

Thanks again for your help
-Max

When I was in highschool I had to use consoles like the MANTRIX II and NSI N7024 consoles. No screens, just submasters and presets. And we did some musicals. My hands got a workout during a show. Hardly a rest.
It sucks and is unpleasant compared to running cues and only pressing go, but it works when it is all you can afford. So is something better than the smartfade NECESSARY? No. Would I myself want something better? Absolutely.

Personally I would go with anything from Lightfactory to Nomad over the smartfade. Hardware being the factor of worry to the cost. The Element as stated is the most recommended, however not cheapest solution. Dollars and Cents count a lot with school boards with little arts funding and such.

You can TRY and see if they will work something else, but Id say you'll probably have to wait the year for the renovations. You AREN'T the only one using a smartfade, or even WORSE. There are lots of schools with sub-par equipment. There just isn't the money for it.
Then again there are schools with huge fancy theatre spaces, and every theatre kid who goes to the ones that don't, wish they had one.
 
Look into SmartSoft. It allows a PC to connect to the board. It will work as a monitor and greatly eases cue editing. You can also use it to label many things which is always a priority for me.
 
Thanks for your advice. I guess I was privaglavaged working on an obsession (though old).

My biggestest questions are if I can work something out, is the nomad a solution with a similar price(which is what they care most about), and if not should I run shows with its limited cueing ability or just live?

Thanks
-Max
 
I believe Nomad will be more, if you have to buy a PC and fader wing. But talk to the schools supplier to be sure. There are many pricing factors that might come into play.
 
We have a PC to use, and I was hpeiong a touchscreen would take the place of a fader wing. Also I looked at smarysoft and that looks like it could greatly improve the smartfade. Thanks!

But minus a PC and fader wing, any idea on the costs?
 
Retail pricing for Nomad, both dongles and Pucks, can be found here. The gadget, here.

Best,
John
 
While the smartfade isn't really a great board for a seasoned user, I find it very useful. Smartsoft will make your life easier. My advice would be run the show off subs. I use one for busking all the time. It'll give you a chance to learn a new way to run a show.

Now on a side note, if you are willing to step away from an ETC system and you find the smartfade impossible, Chamsys is the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Overkill for conventionals, but very very workable. Pick up an Enttec dongle or artnet node and you can play around with lots of other software if Chamsys doesn't work for you.
 
I've used Smartfades quite often, and while they are not super easy to use, they work well for what they are.

I just programed a show on a SF1248, but the best thing I did was to use a laptop and Smartsoft to assist. It was a HUGE help, making editing cues and timing super painless.

I know its not a real great solution, but if you have no other options... give it a try!
 
I have been enjoying my ETC Nomad, but I don't think that it's the ideal board for an educational setting. Don't get me wrong, it's powerful. It's as powerful as Ion/Element (obviously), but unless you also purchase a fader wing and a recording wing, it isn't a replacement for Obsession. You'll find yourself seriously missing encoder wheels (if you had used them).

By the point that you purchase Nomad, a node, a fader wing, and a recording wing, you'll have spent around $4000 (assuming 1 full universe). At that point, I would recommend trying to get the students and parents to just fundraise the extra $2000 and buy an Element. Even just the Element 40.

Having physical sliders is just very important in an educational setting, IMHO, and it's hard to argue with submasters.
 
Thanks for your advice. I guess I was privaglavaged working on an obsession (though old).

My biggestest questions are if I can work something out, is the nomad a solution with a similar price(which is what they care most about), and if not should I run shows with its limited cueing ability or just live?

Thanks
-Max

You were, I started in high school 4 years ago on a 7532 (32 fader 2-scene preset total of 64 faders) with 250 cues, roughly 1 cue every minute. Soon after I learned that the console could stack submasters to make cue stacks. It was painful but not all that bad, the "smartsoft" sounds nifty and I would give it a shot before you go out and buy a nomad (which no High School should have, simply because it is not the real thing!).
//Riley
 
You were, I started in high school 4 years ago on a 7532 (32 fader 2-scene preset total of 64 faders) with 250 cues, roughly 1 cue every minute. Soon after I learned that the console could stack submasters to make cue stacks. It was painful but not all that bad, the "smartsoft" sounds nifty and I would give it a shot before you go out and buy a nomad (which no High School should have, simply because it is not the real thing!).
//Riley

Although yes, Nomad is "not the real thing" because it doesn't have a hard keyboard layout, with 2 touchscreen monitors and a regular monitor you can virtually mimic the full thing. One touchscreen can have virtual keyboard, the other can have the submaster sliders. Sure it is not as nice as a board, but for about half the cost of an ION you can have something that comes close enough. A student that learns on a properly setup Nomad system can jump on an ION or Element and get going far faster than one who has never touched EOS before. As a student, I would argue that having students learn EOS on Nomad is more beneficial than learning to use an expression or smartfade just because you want to avoid computer-based controls. Before my school got an ION they had a Whole Hog 2 OnPC, and it worked just fine. I'm thinking of buying Nomad for myself so I can use it on other gigs instead of an Insight 2, and yes I will be teaching kids to use it.
 
This is one of the biggest issues with PC based systems. The physical controls are very valuable for most users, but are also expensive.

I was considering buying grandMA 2 OnPC with programming wing, until I realized that it was $8000, and I could buy an ION and all accessories for that price.
 

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