ETC Prodigy Variable Speed Hoist System and Foundation Control System Demo

dvsDave

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mstaylor

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Is this something that could be adapted to arenas for moving a truss high speed. I supply trusses for theatre in arenas and this would be good for taking drops in and out.
 

derekleffew

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I suspect that since Prodigy is intended for permanent (non-portable) installations, it could be used for the purpose you describe, but there are more cost-effective and tour-friendly solutions. Also, ETC requires a Factory-Trained and ETCP-Certified installer, so you'd need one of those at every load-in.
 

wolf825

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Is this something that could be adapted to arenas for moving a truss high speed. I supply trusses for theatre in arenas and this would be good for taking drops in and out.

In addition to what derick said - if I recall their system is also limited to a 50' maximum travel and no more (in order to maintain the size, weight and footprint of the rig) - so for many arena's it would not work. They designed it to fit the high school and some college theater markets and buildings.
 

soundman

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Looking at the PDF you can get them moving at 180 feet per minute, or 3 feet a second. The WLL is 1/2 ton but that is still awfully fast. It would be interesting to know the engineering that goes into making sure the building could handle the shock load of a heavily loaded lineset traveling at speed getting E-Stopped. Lately I have been dealing with chain motors @ 64 FPM. Down riggers that haven't seen chain move that fast are always shocked no matter what warning I give them.

Units units units.
 
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derekleffew

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Looking at the PDF you can get them moving at 180 feet per second, or 120 miles per hour. ...
That couldn't possibly be true. Even FTSI's super-high-speed winches don't go that fast.:eek:

This Prodigy™ Variable Speed Low Profile Hoist Series.pdf says "0-180 fpm". If you've found another specification that states "fps", I'm sure Mr. Sweet would like to know.

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Another potential drawback: the variable speed hoist requires 480V 3Ø, which may not be readily available.
 
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josh88

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as I listened to the first explanation I found myself thinking there's something about his accent that makes him sound a bit like one of those text to speech voices. With some of the emphasis and tone of his voice made it feel like I had a computer talking to me. Anybody else notice that?

Also during the video he does specify that the variable speed is feet per minute not second.
 

avkid

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Lately I have been dealing with chain motors @ 64 FPM. Down riggers that haven't seen chain move that fast are always shocked no matter what warning I give them.
Nice, new Lodestars?
 

DuckJordan

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I may end up suggesting my employer to look into one of these systems (he's an ETC fan), While not forseable in the next 5 years, Its possible when they expand the system to be able to work with more than 48 lines sets (we would require about 70). the 50 foot of travel is still quite a bit of movement. My venue only requires about 40 for a full in and out drop. While it wouldn't be sent to the grid I'm sure things are able to change with this system for custom installs which is how ETC should be looking at Rigging. Each job is custom and not easily just a cut and paste...
 

MPowers

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......... It would be interesting to know the engineering that goes into making sure the building could handle the shock load of a heavily loaded lineset traveling at speed getting E-Stopped........
The engineering that goes into a building is of course the combined work of the Architect, Structural Engineer and Theatre Consultant. Companies like JR Clancy, ETC, Vortek et. al. have done extensive engineering studies on how their rigging works (or doesn't) with building structures. That's one of the reasons that the Prodigy was designed with the compression tube as part of the base design. Many school auditoriums and theatres have been designed and built without a consultant and have roof structures that are less than ideal for supporting theatre rigging, especially in terms of lateral loading, thus the tube. All the rigging companies offer backbones or stiffeners with their powered rigging, The prodigy is just the first one to make it part of the base design and have the absence of a backbone/tube be the option rather than the norm.

As far as the shock loading engineering, it's just math. Math and making sure all the parameters are allowed for. Snow load, wind shear, wind up lift, harmonic vibration from the shock load(s), how many shock loads could happen simultaneously and of what magnitude. Total weight imposed on the building structure by the structure itself, total weight of installed equipment such as transformers, roof mounted air handling units, microwave or radio towers etc. finally add in the total static loading of the theatre and stage equipment with the potential dynamic loading figured in. Once they have all the pieces together they crunch the numbers and see if the forces balance out. Part of the equation is you want to build the structure "Just" strong enough with adequate allowable safety margins, but no stronger (unless planning for future expansion) because it add a LOT of cost to a building to make it taller or stronger or have a greater span. When there is no theatre consultant, the tendency is to under estimate the loads the stage equipment will add to the picture. Once the mistake has been made, it is difficult and expensive to correct. Say the roof structure won't support the load. Easy, just build a grid or add some beams below the roof to support the rigging. But wait, now we have to add structure to the side walls to support the added steel. If the rigging adds lateral loading we also have to beef up the side wall that takes the loading. Now we've added a lot of wight that the side walls have to support, might need to beef up the back wall and the supporting structure holding up the proscenium. Now the foundation is over loaded and we have to work on that.......... As you can see, it's like pulling a loose thread on a knit sweater, once you start, it just keeps going.
 

themuzicman

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Anyone know if there is any sort of "blind" programming feature on this? Any time I tour to a Vortek house our flymen always complain about the fact that the Vortek needs to bring each drop in one by one and set trims and speeds by actually moving the drop in programming - their hope is that one day the automated systems will allow them to program our entire show while everything is hanging in the air (assuming they did all of their math right in the advance).
 

mlichter

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Anyone know if there is any sort of "blind" programming feature on this? Any time I tour to a Vortek house our flymen always complain about the fact that the Vortek needs to bring each drop in one by one and set trims and speeds by actually moving the drop in programming - their hope is that one day the automated systems will allow them to program our entire show while everything is hanging in the air (assuming they did all of their math right in the advance).

There are 2 great things you may be very interested in:

1.) On the ETC Foundation controller, in order to progam cues, presets or even trims (that can be referenced in cues and presets), you don't have to move anything. When you enter positions, the system usually suggests the current position of a hoist, but it is always possible to numerically enter a different position without having to move a hoist.
However, since usually every system is calibrated slightly differently and thing get attached in different ways, I would highly recomend to at least set up a low trim for each used lineset by physically moving it there. This reference can then be utilised for programming throughout the system without having to physically move there.

2.) We are currently working on a ANSI standard (through PLASA) that describes a common show-file format for stage machinery systems. The idea is that you can write a show on a control system from manufacturer X and load it into a system from manufacturer Y in a different venue. There will still be some tweaking that will have to happen after you loaded it, but the cue structure, speeds / times and all will all be there... The good news: All US rigging control system manufacturers are involved.
 

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