ETC Prototype OLED Keyboard for EOS family
- Thread starterdvsDave
- Start date
For the same reason that many places don't buy touch screens. They are judged to be a fancy accessory that you don't absolutely need to have in order to run the console. Yes these items speed up your programming, but if you aren't in a high end concert environment, an added few seconds here and there programming is not enough to justify the expense. The RFR on the other hand increases the the speed of hang and refocus work significantly. A one person hang and focus is a nightmare without an RFR.
Agreed. If buying an Ion on a budget in order of the priorities:
- Ion 1024, add addresses later
- A 2x20 wing
- RRFU
- A 2nd wing, maybe a 2x10
- A touch screen
- Client Dongle and x-keys
- A 2nd TS
- aRFR or iRFR and WiFi router. Hard sell, as the aRFR or iRFR may work as well as the RRFU just not as reliably all the time. Very dependent on phone battery life for reliable functionality, or it sits on a charger all day.
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
I have to say that I strongly disagree with this order and, depending on your space and how you configure your wireless network, the reliability of the aRFR and iRFR. Everything depends on what your theater needs. My summer stock really had no need for a 2x20 wing, the 2x10 was fine as nothing was ever busked and I only ever needed hazer and house light control with some emergency subs for bringing up and inhibiting my follow spots. At no point would a touch screen have been useful to have; I never would have had time to take my hand off the console's keys to touch anything on it. Also, no need for a client dongle, board was brought into the house and the programmer (me) sat with the designer next to them. During notes sessions after the board was brought back up to my perch the designer would move next to me or use a laptop with the client software running in Mirror Mode or in the Client viewing only mode.
As for a/i RFR or RRFU, yes, the RRFU may have better battery life, until the batteries in it go bad and you have to replace them. Yes, proper battery maintenance procedures would prevent this, but not everyone that will use it gets that. We also can't discount the ability to load it onto an iPad, which increases feature richness of the app as well, and its significantly more powerful battery along with those of Android Tablets. Additionally, the iRFR has the virtual encoders the RRFU doesn't provide for. Extremely slick and useful for checking your moving lights and scrollers and updating their positions.
All about scale, many different reasons why different theaters buy IONs and other EOS Family products. I think it does an injustice to many to blindly specify an order of importance for the things that go with these consoles. You've also not mentioned the RVI and BPU, which for some theaters may be of higher importance than anything on this list.
As for the OLED keyboard, useful if I'm programming my own show or busking it live, I would guess, but in many programming situations useless. Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console......
As for a/i RFR or RRFU, yes, the RRFU may have better battery life, until the batteries in it go bad and you have to replace them. Yes, proper battery maintenance procedures would prevent this, but not everyone that will use it gets that. We also can't discount the ability to load it onto an iPad, which increases feature richness of the app as well, and its significantly more powerful battery along with those of Android Tablets. Additionally, the iRFR has the virtual encoders the RRFU doesn't provide for. Extremely slick and useful for checking your moving lights and scrollers and updating their positions.
All about scale, many different reasons why different theaters buy IONs and other EOS Family products. I think it does an injustice to many to blindly specify an order of importance for the things that go with these consoles. You've also not mentioned the RVI and BPU, which for some theaters may be of higher importance than anything on this list.
As for the OLED keyboard, useful if I'm programming my own show or busking it live, I would guess, but in many programming situations useless. Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console......
Joe
The issue of the value of a touch screen came up extensively in this thread - http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...grade-lighting-control-board-need-advice.html
Pretty much anyone that's used a touch screen see's the value. As well think for a minute that the Eos and Gios consoles, hardly busking desks, have sold as well as they have in part because they have built in touch screens. So obviously they can be a real time saver when set up and used properly.
Thus I find it odd that you would not recommend one, seemingly basing your opinion on the fact that "At no point would a touch screen have been useful to have" but not actually having used one in a programming environment (correct me if I'm wrong). Your final sentence "Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console" says it all, as PRESSING Color Pallete 1 on the TS, only labeled as "R02" is even easier when using a touch screen, with less chance for a typo.
As to WiFi versus the RRFU. Tough call and I say that. ETC has made the purchase of the RRFU questionable. I use both, often at the same time. In general, the RRFU battery life is much better then the typical iPhone or Android phone and you CAN change the batteries on an RRFU, which are cheap AA's. You can't change the battery on an iPhone. A tablet ?, hard to say.
Note that while the aRFR and iPhone app has better ML functionality, let's wait and see what ETC does to the RRFU with the next release, although I suspect the phone apps's, with a graphical interface will prove more useful and easier to use.
I do know that WiFi in general has typically been more problematic then the dedicated radio system ETC uses on the RRFU, and is the reason they went that route, but possibly that's changing with better understanding of network configuration as well as better equipment. I do know that you cannot use as example the fact that many manufacturers give out or sell assorted apps for Droid and iPhone, as that's just making it easier for the customers. WiFi has always been less robust for critical applications and pretty much everyone understands that. Thus it is my opinion, having used both the RRFU as well as the aRFR, that the RRFU is going to be more robust long term.
Client dongle versus an RVI ?. Anybodies guess and I didn't list it specifically for that reason . You get better usefulness out of the dongle, if you already have and use the computer/laptop for something else and can share it during the tech process. But really a specific application for the RVI which isn't cheap and only does one thing. The dongle might be more cost effective.
But the whole list is just that, an opinion, but I think that's a given, just like your priorities are an opinion.
So a caveat that MY list is what I found the most useful for a road house.
The issue of the value of a touch screen came up extensively in this thread - http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...grade-lighting-control-board-need-advice.html
Pretty much anyone that's used a touch screen see's the value. As well think for a minute that the Eos and Gios consoles, hardly busking desks, have sold as well as they have in part because they have built in touch screens. So obviously they can be a real time saver when set up and used properly.
Thus I find it odd that you would not recommend one, seemingly basing your opinion on the fact that "At no point would a touch screen have been useful to have" but not actually having used one in a programming environment (correct me if I'm wrong). Your final sentence "Color Palette 1 or whatever is pretty easy to type into the console" says it all, as PRESSING Color Pallete 1 on the TS, only labeled as "R02" is even easier when using a touch screen, with less chance for a typo.
As to WiFi versus the RRFU. Tough call and I say that. ETC has made the purchase of the RRFU questionable. I use both, often at the same time. In general, the RRFU battery life is much better then the typical iPhone or Android phone and you CAN change the batteries on an RRFU, which are cheap AA's. You can't change the battery on an iPhone. A tablet ?, hard to say.
Note that while the aRFR and iPhone app has better ML functionality, let's wait and see what ETC does to the RRFU with the next release, although I suspect the phone apps's, with a graphical interface will prove more useful and easier to use.
I do know that WiFi in general has typically been more problematic then the dedicated radio system ETC uses on the RRFU, and is the reason they went that route, but possibly that's changing with better understanding of network configuration as well as better equipment. I do know that you cannot use as example the fact that many manufacturers give out or sell assorted apps for Droid and iPhone, as that's just making it easier for the customers. WiFi has always been less robust for critical applications and pretty much everyone understands that. Thus it is my opinion, having used both the RRFU as well as the aRFR, that the RRFU is going to be more robust long term.
Client dongle versus an RVI ?. Anybodies guess and I didn't list it specifically for that reason . You get better usefulness out of the dongle, if you already have and use the computer/laptop for something else and can share it during the tech process. But really a specific application for the RVI which isn't cheap and only does one thing. The dongle might be more cost effective.
But the whole list is just that, an opinion, but I think that's a given, just like your priorities are an opinion.
So a caveat that MY list is what I found the most useful for a road house.
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jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
I think it is important to clarify, as you've now done, what we are making the list for.
As for palette selection via direct selects: if I were programming my own show selecting a color palette on a TS is one thing. When its another designer spewing command line after command line at me, which did happen, there was no way I could have gotten my hands away from the keys to press a touch screen. Additionally, there were no moving lights in the rig this summer due to budget tightening, just ColorRamII scrollers. None of the designers opted to call out color frames by name (they were in the color palette labels), just by number. Had there been moving lights and more color palettes, then yes, touch screens would have begun helping things along, possibly.
This was the entire point of my post, though, that every theater operates in a different way. Dealing primarily with older and smaller (125, then 300 to 500 seat) venues as I most often do with more limited budgets and less moving light technology, touch screens and $1900 remotes are often out of the question as their return value is not near what it would be in a large road house. Wifi proves more than reliable enough for us; I've had a programmer complete a cuing notes session with an iPad running iRFR. Different strokes for different folks....
As for palette selection via direct selects: if I were programming my own show selecting a color palette on a TS is one thing. When its another designer spewing command line after command line at me, which did happen, there was no way I could have gotten my hands away from the keys to press a touch screen. Additionally, there were no moving lights in the rig this summer due to budget tightening, just ColorRamII scrollers. None of the designers opted to call out color frames by name (they were in the color palette labels), just by number. Had there been moving lights and more color palettes, then yes, touch screens would have begun helping things along, possibly.
This was the entire point of my post, though, that every theater operates in a different way. Dealing primarily with older and smaller (125, then 300 to 500 seat) venues as I most often do with more limited budgets and less moving light technology, touch screens and $1900 remotes are often out of the question as their return value is not near what it would be in a large road house. Wifi proves more than reliable enough for us; I've had a programmer complete a cuing notes session with an iPad running iRFR. Different strokes for different folks....
The iPad battery is not changeable. But, it lasts 10 hours (roughly, I've had that much battery.). The battery is also supposed to last for around 1000 cycles, so it should last a very long time, and could be powered by the console if need be.
I suppose if you were to want reliable wifi, you could add multiple WAPs throughout the building. If you configure them correctly, the i(a)RFR device could switch between them based on signal strength without losing signal.
TitaniumFish
Member
So with Nomad out, could this possibly become a reality?
techieman33
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt it will ever happen. The keyboard they were using is no longer made, and considered by most to be a total flop. With touch screens dropping so much in price it would be crazy to spend $2000 on a keyboard when you could have a much more versatile touch screen for under 1/4 of the price.
techieman33
Well-Known Member
TitaniumFish
Member
If they just sold a cheap keyboard with the functions they perform written on the keys so it was quicker to navigate in offline or on nomad I would be pleased as punch. No need for back lighting and fancy keys around the sides, just some labeled keys. I'd even go for a labeled key cover I could find one.
techieman33
Well-Known Member
That keyboard wasn't just back lit, it had a tiny screen on each key so they could change what each key said. The same key could say pallette, group, show different colors for the color picker, etc.
TitaniumFish
Member
I was unaware that each key was capable of performing that many tasks. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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