ETC S4WRD Color?

STEVETERRY said:
"Most folks are using 750's." This is a very common misconception about which HPL lamps are the most popular. Ranked from most volume in the market to least volume, they are:

1. 575X long life 2000 hr (by a very wide margin--many multiples of the other types)
2. 575 300 hr
3. 750 300 hr

This goes to "What is bright enough?" For comparison, a 26 degree S4 with each of those lamp types:

575X 7,666 field lumens
575 11,226 field lumens
750 13,390 field lumens

So, starting with the 575X used by the vast majority of S4 owners and then looking at where that gets knocked down to by gel in saturated colors, the S4WRD photometrics clearly place it in a brightness range that is going to be very usable for a great many users.

Just sayin'.

ST
Click to expand...

Wow... for the first time I think I'm going to disagree with Steve. He is correct that the 575W version ARE by far the most popular (vs. the 375 & 750W), but the Long life is not even CLOSE to being "many multiples" of the other types. In fact it barely beats the standard 300 hr. version, and from year to year they sometimes switch as to which is the more popular lamp that year. It's more a factor of ~1.2 x when they pass one another.

Recently the long life version /X has been more popular, but I can't for the life of me understand why it would be. You can't over-drive a lamp and make them brighter (only Spinal Tap can turn it to 11). You can however underdrive a lamp and make it dimmer and last longer (in essence turning it into a "long life" version). So I always tell people to buy the lamp that gives you the greatest flexibility- which means buy the highest Lumen/CCT version of each wattage, and then if you want longer life out of them, simply dim them or run them at 90-95%. BUT- unlike with the long life versions, you now will also have a high output, bright white version as well. Something you would not have had if you only got the /X version of the lamp. Now- if you are talking about an architectural installation when it will be on at full all of the time, then obviously you want the one that will serve the single purpose that is needed. But all theatres should be buying the High Output version and getting a lamp that can serve multiple purposes. (IMHO).

Best regards,

Mark
 
DELO72 said:
Wow... for the first time I think I'm going to disagree with Steve. He is correct that the 575W version ARE by far the most popular (vs. the 375 & 750W), but the Long life is not even CLOSE to being "many multiples" of the other types. In fact it barely beats the standard 300 hr. version, and from year to year they sometimes switch as to which is the more popular lamp that year. It's more a factor of ~1.2 x when they pass one another.

Recently the long life version /X has been more popular, but I can't for the life of me understand why it would be. You can't over-drive a lamp and make them brighter (only Spinal Tap can turn it to 11). You can however underdrive a lamp and make it dimmer and last longer (in essence turning it into a "long life" version). So I always tell people to buy the lamp that gives you the greatest flexibility- which means buy the highest Lumen/CCT version of each wattage, and then if you want longer life out of them, simply dim them or run them at 90-95%. BUT- unlike with the long life versions, you now will also have a high output, bright white version as well. Something you would not have had if you only got the /X version of the lamp. Now- if you are talking about an architectural installation when it will be on at full all of the time, then obviously you want the one that will serve the single purpose that is needed. But all theatres should be buying the High Output version and getting a lamp that can serve multiple purposes. (IMHO).

Best regards,

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, spoken like a true razor-blade manufacturer! ;)

My previous statement is supported by data from all licensed HPL manufacturers, but it is now a few years old. However, I was comparing 575X to all types, not just 575 300hr vs. 575 2000hr. I agree that I was not clear on that.

Of course, I defer to Mark on the Osram data.

But, when presented with the possibility of a brighter setting, I'll bet that there are very few users that would say "No, hold it to 95%, we need to extend lamp life."

The fact remains that the 575X provides a "unit of light" that is useful to a great many users.

ST
 
I absolutely agree with your statement, and was in no way trying to discredit the validity of the 4WRD Color unit as an excellent option in the market.

I was just trying to correct the data on volumes by type as that data you have is from prior to July of 2011, and not from the past 9 years. :) The output of 575W/X is definitely good enough for most applications based on acceptance in the market! Stay safe everyone, and VOTE!
 
Will this fit on the older S4's? I've had trouble putting newer burner assemblies on the OG 575w fixtures we've got circa 1995.
 
microstar said:
Just what everyone needs..... RJ45 to 5-pin XLR adapter cables. And here I thought RJ45's were only recommended for non-portable equipment.
Click to expand...
XLR 5's are the standard; whatever happened to having standards?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Code: 
standard (n):

a: a banner carried before an advancing army
b: a rallying point in battle

Standards vary, or in this case, evolve.

I don't think the target market for a S4 LED retrofit is the entertainment industry. They are a better fit for architectural, HOW, and schools that don't have big well-equipped theatres.

FWIW, I'd buy ColorSource Jrs before I'd retrofit existing S4s and, since most of my S4 inventory is used for front lighting, it's still going to be a while before I give up on incandescent.
 
microstar said:
Just what everyone needs..... RJ45 to 5-pin XLR adapter cables. And here I thought RJ45's were only recommended for non-portable equipment.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, but I think at least if you're replacing a whole bank of these then it's easy enough to terminate RJ45's to custom lengths. At least if you're using Cat 5/6
 
StradivariusBone said:
I tend to agree, but I think at least if you're replacing a whole bank of these then it's easy enough to terminate RJ45's to custom lengths. At least if you're using Cat 5/6
Click to expand...

There's no value in cooking your own CATx cables unless you're trying to use tactical cable. Patch cords of any increment in any color you want are a dime a dozen and come pre-certified.

@sk8rsdad I'm still waiting for manufacturers to rip the band-aid off and lay the foundation for a successor to DMX. However painful the transition may be, it's time to reimagine the control architecture for modern lighting systems. Probably looking at a 10 year transition period where DMX never fully dies, if the evolution timelines of Dante/AES67/AVB are any indication of what that evolution process may look like. I won't lay any chips down as to whether that should or should be an ethernet-based solution because you've got to get buy-in from about 200 different markets and several thousand vendors but the longer we postpone, the more painful and past due that target goal will be.

Please submit any comments or voodoo dolls via regular post to my Nashville office and misspell my name just enough that they can't tell who to direct those messages to.
 
Last edited:
MNicolai said:
There's no value in cooking your own CATx cables unless you're trying to use tactical cable. Patch cords of any increment in any color you want are a dime a dozen and come pre-certified.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I've got a big spool of it and no shortage of ends. If I'm looking to do a whole bridge-worth of these things, it's just as easy for me personally to terminate and make custom-length cables. Versus terminating XLRs, RJ45's is much quicker. I'd rather do that than mess around with adapters too.

I can see where the road types wouldn't want to mess around with that, but for an install with a rep plot that's not going to change often why not? However, I'm wondering if the failure rate on twisted pair solid copper is going to be higher than a stranded copper cable using XLRs when it's being patched in again and again.

All that said, the RJ45 seems to be an odd choice here. The fixture is DMX only and does not work with ArtNet from what I can see, unless I missed something that says a future upgrade is possible? We are definitely in the transition phase of control protocols, a pair of moving lights I bought a year or two back had about 5 ways to input commands to it.
 
RJ45 is more about having a ubiquitous, readily available solution rather than finding a specialty connector that creates a new layer of complexity and problems. This is an area where the more "clever" you are about finding the perfect connector, the more problems you actually create for implementation and deployment. Another set of cables, connectors, and adapters is the kind of thing the larger production and rental outfits tend to revolt against. RJ45 to DMX is the lesser of evils than say a TA5F to DMX.
 
DELO72 said:
I absolutely agree with your statement, and was in no way trying to discredit the validity of the 4WRD Color unit as an excellent option in the market.

I was just trying to correct the data on volumes by type as that data you have is from prior to July of 2011, and not from the past 9 years. :) The output of 575W/X is definitely good enough for most applications based on acceptance in the market! Stay safe everyone, and VOTE!
Click to expand...
microstar said:
Just what everyone needs..... RJ45 to 5-pin XLR adapter cables. And here I thought RJ45's were only recommended for non-portable equipment.
Click to expand...
Two words:

1. Size
2. Cost

S4WRD is a candidate for facilities where there may not be one XLR5. Perhaps the run will simply go from a wireless DMX512 receiver to all the fixtures in a location. And that receiver might even have an RJ45 output.

BTW, you are preaching to the converted on the issue of DMX512 connector standards. But this product has a target market where RJ45 makes very good economic and size sense, IMHO.

"Horses for Courses".

ST
 
STEVETERRY said:
Two words:

1. Size
2. Cost

S4WRD is a candidate for facilities where there may not be one XLR5. Perhaps the run will simply go from a wireless DMX512 receiver to all the fixtures in a location. And that receiver might even have an RJ45 output.

BTW, you are preaching to the converted on the issue of DMX512 connector standards. But this product has a target market where RJ45 makes very good economic and size sense, IMHO.

"Horses for Courses".

ST
Click to expand...
Standards are GREAT! That's why we have so many of them.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
STEVETERRY said:
S4WRD is a candidate for facilities where there may not be one XLR5. Perhaps the run will simply go from a wireless DMX512 receiver to all the fixtures in a location. And that receiver might even have an RJ45 output
Click to expand...

Such a facility checking in. It wouldn't be hard for us to run the cabling necessary for these but artnet support would've been nice since we are slowly adding nodes as we go along. But also added cost so I get it's a trade-off.

That said, it wouldn't be hard to stack a node on one end of the electric and just go from there. We run a three color front wash and these could be economical to replace one of the three colors and then blend the LED with the cool and warm incandescents?

I asked up above, but will these work on all S4s, even the older ones?
 
StradivariusBone said:
Such a facility checking in. It wouldn't be hard for us to run the cabling necessary for these but artnet support would've been nice since we are slowly adding nodes as we go along. But also added cost so I get it's a trade-off.

That said, it wouldn't be hard to stack a node on one end of the electric and just go from there. We run a three color front wash and these could be economical to replace one of the three colors and then blend the LED with the cool and warm incandescents?

I asked up above, but will these work on all S4s, even the older ones?
Click to expand...

Yes, it will fit all variants of S4.

And this class of product does not support the cost of a network connection such as Artnet.

ST
 
The real drawback is mixing 4Wrds and more, uh, conventional intelligent fixtures on the same lighting position, since converting to and from and to and from DMX and RJ-45 gets a little cumbersome, as I discovered in one venue that shall remain nameless. Easier to have one run of just RJ-45, and a second, parallel run of 5-pin, even if it means bringing in a DMX splitter. Yay RJ-45 for being bi-directional (?)
 
STEVETERRY said:
"Horses for Courses".

ST
Click to expand...

Hearses for corpses. DMX is dead, long live DMX! /anticipating Daytime Emmy nomination.

RJ45 makes sense when the mating cycles will be limited. RJ45 isn't the longest-life connector in the market, but it ticks all the other needed points - size, tooling, standards.
 
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