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Conventional Fixtures ETC Source 4 sockets

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by mikevskinner, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. mikevskinner

    mikevskinner Member

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    Hi there,
    In my theatre, we own several hundred ETC Source 4's. Over the past few years, several caps have died and need the porcelains to be replaced. When we ordered new porcelains, they sent us new and improved ones that do not fit into the older slots. We've tried grinding the porcelains down, cutting them to fit, aiming shrink ray guns at them...etc. Does anyone know how to address this issue or where to purchase the older porcelains. Anything besides having to purchase the entire cap.
     
  2. DaveySimps

    DaveySimps CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I would NOT try to alter the actual instrument to fit your part. I have had great luck purchasing the older ones from BMI Supply, although I have not had to purchase any in a year or so.

    ~Dave
     
  3. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    As have I...who did you order the porcelins from and did you spec them as the older 575 caps?
     
  4. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    It shouldn't matter the age of the Source Four, the TP-22H socket should fit them all, even the new "all in one" sockets. I have source fours in my inventory that probably got pulled off the prototype shelf and I have put the newer bases in them. There are other TP-22 sockets, which fit some of the newer source fours, but they are different than the TP-22H.
     
  5. jrdeamicis

    jrdeamicis Member

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    Don't trash the new porcelain to make it work. If you own a couple hundred. You have a few spares around so you are not dying for fixtures. If you own only 24 and 4 go down. Now thats a different story.

    Contact any ETC rep and explain the situation. They are usually very friendly.
     
  6. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    ETC has nothing to do with the porcelain bases. I believe they are an Osram part, so if you are going to call anyone, I would suggest calling Osram.
     
  7. Sean

    Sean Active Member

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    Unless they were ordered from ETC. They may not MANUFACTURE them, but if ETC sold them to the dealer that then sold them to the end user, ETC will fix it.

    Call your supplier. _IF_ that doesn't fix the problem, call ETC:
    (800) 688-4116



    --Sean
     
  8. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I was ordering the porcelain piece in the past, I was always asked if I wanted the new or the old version. Apparently ETC re-designed it at some point in the past, I forget what year.

    I haven't needed to order that in a few years, but last time I called Production Advantage, so I assume they would sell you both styles.
     
  9. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Probably right around the time they re-designed the cap to take 750w HPL's.
     
  10. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    There are three big variants in the source four TP22H socket, the first was the 3 to 4 piece which had mica and ceramic insulators and the TP22 leads. The second was only briefly used in Source Fours between 2006 and 2007 as a stand in before the TP22H socket from osram. This second gen socket is also a single piece design, but it doesn't have the same contacts in the socket as the TP22H (it has 2 metal contacts that are spring mounted so that when an HPL is seated it will have a snug connection un like the older TP22 gold sockets that were essentially cylindrical contacts that weren't always perfectly reliable). The final and current socket is the Osram TP22H socket which is also a single piece "all in one" socket. This socket uses contacts that "float" in and are spring loaded in some way in order to insure that the Lamp contacts contact with the socket correctly. ETC now uses the Osram TP22H as the stock socket. What is the date code on your fixtures? (its printed on a small white sticker on the left or right side of the yoke).
     
  11. jrdeamicis

    jrdeamicis Member

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    ETC will let you know whats up with the variations of the caps. Osram has so many different variants and lamps. You can't expect them to know everything....
     
  12. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    a matter of fact, socket manufactures actually battle over who gets to be ETCs stock socket from the factory, right now it's Osram's TP22H, a fe3w months before that it was a GE single piece... etc... So ETC doesn't have a definite supplier of sockets, they just buy whom ever meets their criterion, right now that is Osram. However, on units manufactured between 9/06 and 12/06, (September thru December) a leak of an entire batch of bad sockets cropped up, ETC doesn't have exact numbers of how many are bad, but the effected sockets are in all of the ETC product family (conventional fixtures). What happens in the effected unit is that after some jarring around and bench focusing, a stress point fracture starts to form on one or both of the welded interface points between the socket and the lead wires and the lead wires snap off. ETC will send you a replacement TP22H socket (they will ask how soon you need it, next day delivery is even available) as long as you mention the unit was within that specified time period. Those effected sockets are from units containing what I think is the GE single piece socket. The lead wires are black or white depending on fixture type and lot, but the socket has a small GE logo emblem on it (you have to take apart the cap and look at the top side of the socket. Also the contacts within the socket aren't like the older TP22 gold cylinder sockets, in the in-between Osram and original socket, the GE socket has two spring loaded contact plates that sit on one side of the socket. (Should be able to post picture, just have to find one of the bad sockets).
     
  13. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    If you mean cap variations, there are really only 2. The original source four cap, the source four junior cap (same as the original source four cap but can only be used with 575w HPLs), and the newer 750 watt endcaps for the source fours (includes a thermoplastic focusing handle with stickers that say "750" on each side of the handle). Essentially the older original cap (limited to 575w) can be upgraded with the thermoplastic handle for ease of use, but those handles do not have the 750 labeling stickers for ease of identifying the old from the new.
     
  14. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Don't forget the manufacturing change the prevents newer caps from fitting on older instruments. By older instruments I do mean like first and second run. However, due to a change in the casting tooling a new cap will not fit on an older instrument unless the older instrument is modified. On the other hand, an old cap will fit on a new unit. You only have to grind down 4 pins on the older units to make the new caps fit, and ETC says this is just fine to do. I keep meaning to take a picture since many people don't believe me, but I never have a camera when I end up working on one of the older fixtures.

    Also, 575w Source 4 lamp caps (not Jr. caps) can be upgraded for use with 750w lamps as long as you upgrade the wiring. Also I would recommend the lamp cap retrofit kit for older units. For $17 you get all the parts (sans porcelain base and leads) to rebuild the cap and have a lamp retaining clip. I have been slowly upgrading some of our older units as they have started eating lamps and bases due to not having the retainer clip, so vibration rattles the lamps around and causes arcing and such.
     
  15. tomlittrell

    tomlittrell Member

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    Lighting Guy 32 is correct - the Bender & Wirth sockets that we used for a time a couple of years ago are a tad bigger - and there are a few floating around in various dealer stockrooms. LG32 is also correct about the socket improvements. Both the B&W and Osram Sylvania sockets have greatly improved contacts so there will less need to replace them.

    Tom at ETC
     
  16. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    So what I believed to be a GE socket is actually a Bender&Wirth? Icewolf, if memory serves me correctly the last time I glanced inside a Source Four Jr socket assembly, the only hindering factor preventing the use of the 750w HPL is a screw that has been screwed into the index hole that is meant for the extra pin on the 750w HPL. I could be wrong, but from the looks of it that is the only difference apart from the focusing handle.
     
  17. dramatech

    dramatech Well-Known Member

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    ETC has made many changes in the source four, But the most noticable ones were in 1997. That is when they went to lens barrels with a securing screw that could be either on top or bottom, and also had five securing tabs for the lens elements as compared to four. They went to the spring lamp retainer and made it possible for the 750 lamp. They didn't change to the one piece socket until 2001, which is also when they went to the lens barrel that has a larger front end for a larger 19* lens. You can still order the ceramic sockets, but you have to specify each part. There is also a modification kit available so that you can add the spring retainer and keep the socket you have. The part number for this kit is not on the ETC public website. Depending on the supplier you purchase from and their desire to sell you the more expensive kit with the new socket and spring clip, and their knowledge, will depend on how easy it will be to purchase. Just as an aside, I am told, but not by an authority, that the new sockets while fitting the source fours will not fit the PAR or PARNel.
     
  18. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    The screw is actually to allow the use of the HPL 550W 77v lamp for dimmer doubling. The pins are on opposite sides of the lamp on the 750W 120V.
     
  19. Lightingguy32

    Lightingguy32 Active Member

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    both of the caps in front of me (one a S4-750 (10/06) the other the S4-jr (10/06)) both have screw hole openings for the 750w lamp's extra pin. I think the lamp burner casting now just includes that hole so that it is easier to install into either fixture without accidentally using a lamp burner for a jr fixture in a S4-750 or vice-versa.
     
  20. mrtrudeau23

    mrtrudeau23 Active Member

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    Source 4 end caps oxidizing

    I have come across four end caps, here at school, where one of the pin holes for the lamp is oxidized, causing a good lamp not to work. Our instruments are only about 4-5 years old, for the most part, and this only has happened in the ellipsoidals, not the PARs. I was just wondering if anyone else has run into this occurring with the Source 4s.

    Edit by Moderator: This post has been moved here from another location.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009

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