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ETC SourceFour Revolution

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by ETCalltheway, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. ETCalltheway

    ETCalltheway Member

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    Has anyone had the wonderful opportunity to use a new S4 Revolution? Are they all that the hype says they are? (After all, it is a Source Four....)
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  2. The_Guest

    The_Guest Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    All I know is I'd love to demo one. This light will be great for theater, it's simple and inexpensive compared so other intels. From what I heard it isn't crap, I've read that it will be used as tool rather than an effect by LD particularly in theater. This could be considered as standard as the s4 is decades from now. It's so simple, I love the no flaw design it has, it makes perfect sense for theater and lite applications.
     
  3. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    we like them. the zooms are so clean.
     
  4. The_Guest

    The_Guest Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Really? Tell us more...
     
  5. propmonkey

    propmonkey Well-Known Member

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    we have i think 4 in the studio theatre i work at. they just have a nice clean focus. rite now we're using 2 one for a preshow light with a snowflake gobo and a spilit gel. it looks really clean. and the other is a spot. over all they work the best we wish we had all s4.
     
  6. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    I've never gotten the chance to use one, but when I went to Little Shop of Horrors on Broadway they had 7 or 8 of them mounted over the front of the stage (the theater I work at would call it the DS pit position, but that varies by theater).

    Anyway, from what I could see, they looked nice, had good focus, and worked nicely with all the normal S4's there were.

    Also, the advantage that I saw cut down on the number of lights that they needed to buy/hang. 4 or 5 fixtures were used instead of 20 or 30 which they would have otherwise needed to hang.
     
  7. The_Guest

    The_Guest Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    That's the beauty of intels/movers, you can do such amazing things such a small amount versus billions of conventionals. Just read a lighting magazine these days (like PLSN), read touring profiles and it's amazing some of the things they accomplish with such a little amount of fixtures. Years ago you probably would have seen billions and billions of par cans. This reminds me of my led zeppelin dvd, they're lighting late 60s was a super basic wash and a spot light for each member. I thought it looked great compared to the mess they had in the 70s when I guess their tour was extravagant enough to start geling every fixture. More was better back then, simple because you couldn't control lighting rigs like you can today. Nowadays, it's amazing how extravagant some of these professional "ballyhoo's" done at concerts these days. On top of it all everything is fairly neat it doesn't look cluttered like many designs found back in the day. If you know what you're doing, 18 intels can do the job of 60 conventials. I don't necessarly mean it'll recapture what the conventials do, but it'll put on a show just as nice. Besides the moving effects, these lights can be so useful for quick focusing esepecially when someone steps out of the wash or light.

    Just take a look at the production profile of PRO LD Dan "Malibu" Krygowski. He stays well under budget, you really have to see some of the pictures in this issue of PLSN. This was a fourth phase gig...

    (12) High End Studio Colors
    (10) Studip Colors
    (04) Cyberlight Turbos
    (01) Avolites Sapphire 2000

    "I've worked on Hog and the Martin Maxxyz. But these guys [the band] are so on-the-fly that the Sapphire is the quickest board for me, becuase I grew up on Pearls, through the House of Blues company."

    Quality, not quantity. Just look at the pictures. Not on the site but if you have the June 2004 issue of PLSN you'll be quite surprised (pg 28-29).

    http://www.plsn.com/cgi/issue/viewissue.cgi?category=22&id=1086727829
     
  8. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    Why would you need one of these. I mean all it is is a S4 that moves. It's a huge fixture too. It does not have gobo's and has a color scroller in it. So all you can do is reposition where it's pointed and throw in a color which you probably dont want in the first place. It's slow too.

    All I can say it's it's a huge rip off. If I needed a beam to move, I would use an I-Cue. Why go out there and buy this HUGE unit that does absolutly nothing but act as a very nice paper weight. Are you really cutting down of fixtures in the theater? When I use a moving head in a show, I want the CMY and gobo wheels. If I just need the beam to go back and forth and shift position, then I use an I-Cue. Honesly, look at what your getting then decide if it's a practical fixture.

    You can't always go " Oh it's high tech, I need one". Look into the fixture, look at what it can do. Am I saying the Rev is a bad fixture, not really, it's just pointless for what it does. now if they turned it into a true moving head and not a search light, then maybe it could be of use.
     
  9. The_Guest

    The_Guest Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Digi. I don't think you understand what the S4 rev is intended for, it's not a Martin Mac or a swanky Varilite fixture. It's a tool, not a toy.

    As most of us all know, ETC primarily targets the theatrical world. Not the concert world. This light is not a Martin Mac, it is a S4. This fixture was not made for ballyhoo's at the top of Aerosmith or Rolling Stones concert. This light makes perfect sense for theater, it's still to be used as a S4 but with moving capabilites it can cut down on the amount of fixtures used and create theatrical effects. Effects such as audience blinders, techno beams, strobes, etc found in high end intels rarely if ever are used or needed in the theater world. This instrument is slow for one main reason...VOLUME. Many of the features that you stated found in most up scale intels simply are way too noisy for the theater world. Theaters don't push 110dB at FOH or have 60 V-dosc line array units to cover up the sound of noisy intels. Noisy fixtures is a useless fixture when it comes to theater apps. No one wants to here a 60,000 rpm motor spinning around above their heads whle enjoying a show in a quiet theater. This light isn't designed for the apps most intels take up, it's designed for what a s4 does. In the future these lights will fill your catwalks and electrics, focusing will take place at the console.

    The S4 rev makes perfect sense, how many times have you wished you had some movers just to cut down on the amount of fixtures your using and you just needed some basic motion effects found in the typical theater app. I like the idea of being able to add on and upgrade the unit when I need too, it makes sense for budgets. Think about it this way, it's a S4 not a mac 2k. When you need color scrolling, gobo rotation, etc you add accessories onto your S4. The S4 is a tool, not a toy. It takes care of the meat and the potatoes. The S4 rev is a tool with moving capabilities, not a ballyhoo toy. You gotta cover the basics before you add the toys.
     
  10. MikeJM

    MikeJM Member

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    Both Digi and The_Guest have good points. Intelligent lighting fixtures such as Mac 2ks are popular in the theater world and are used, and really aren't extremely noisy. ETC just strapped a source four onto a moving yoke. I am not sure on pricing, but if prices compare with other intelligent fixtures, I would pick them over the ETC source four revolution. The nice thing about the revolution is that the it takes a normal 750 watt lamp, like the ones used in the source four. That may be seen as a disadvantage to some people, because it may not be as bright as some other intell. fixtures.

    I wouldn't want a source four revolution because it doesn't have as much flexability as other intells. I wouldn't want to be changing the modules often to get different effects that I desire.

    As The_Guest stated this would be of more use in a theatrical setting, so as far as theater I would say YES, but when it comes to concert touring NO.
     
  11. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Acutely, there are a lot of add ons that you put into the fixture and plug and play--it all works. I believe they have an iris, color scrolled, and a bunch of other things that slip my mind now.

    Ahh, I just found the website for the fixture, this will give you all the information about it.

    http://www.etcconnect.com/products/products.asp?226
     
  12. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    So Zac, what your saying is ETC just does not put all the parts on when you buy it. But when you decide you want a moving light, you can go out and buy the parts. Well now that makes alot of sence. So it's a build-a-moving light. We send you the parts as you need them. :D

    Still not impressed.

    The_Guest... I know that the light is designed for. Are you calling moving lights toy's? Cause if you want to start an argument then I'm all for it. But no reason to be childish.

    You can put Mac's into "theater mode" which quites them down. There is no way you can have a silent moving light. You can change the settings on them to make then quiter. I can make a Mac 250 just as silent as the Rev. I have seen and heard the Rev and it aint that quite.

    So thought you had some good points... But when you take the cost of the fixture and how many fixtures it can replace... still not of any value.

    I guess I'll just wait and see it used.
     
  13. The_Guest

    The_Guest Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Toys, not as in juink. Toys as in the "bells and whistles", no need to get defensive. At the level of technical work most of us on this site operate at, intels (if we're fortunate enough to afford them) don't play the major roles. It's the conventials for the meat and potatoes, and intels for the fancy stuff. While the high end mac fixtures have theatrical features to lower noise, they still aren't really being used to their potential in the theater world. This is quite questionable in the professional industry, but this site is targeted to much lower levels of technical work. Yes as I stated in the other post just like a regular s4, the s4 rev can be accesorized. It's still a bit too early to fully judge it until I see a price (Haha, and use one!) quote. If this product offers a wide price margin between other quality intel units on the market, I would consider it. Most likely, this product will probably cost more than it should. ETC's products are generally more expensive than it's competitor's offerings. Unless the s4 rev is a steal or reasonable priced considering what it is upgradable s4 on a moving yoke, I personally wouldn't even consider it based on my budget and uses for movers/intels. So, nine times out of ten, I would forget it. I would opt for something a little more versitile. Great points brought up here from everyone. If anyone has used these things, let us know.
     
  14. MikeJM

    MikeJM Member

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    Actually, moving lights are being used often in the theater world. Maybe not in community theaters or high schools because of cost, but in major broadway productions, as well as off broadway productions they are being used more and more.

    Many theater LD's may be sticking ot conventional fixtures, but that doesn't mean the intelligents don't have they are uses in theater. There is more that goes into it than the noise level that, a perticular fixture may have.
     
  15. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    Most broadway productions use moving lights. I highly doubt that movers will ever take the place of conventionals fully because that would eliminate alot of jobs and im sure the unions will not have that.


    I tend to like to not see moving lights in the theater world unless it can be used for an effect like in most musicals. Moving lights in general are only used as effects and are not used as primary light sources. I personally specialize in moving lights. But just because you have them does not mean that you have to use them. Just like are you going to use a fresnel to isolate a small area on stage. I would hope not. All fixtures have purposes and specific uses.

    Maybe the ETC Revolution will make a huge apperinece in the theater world. With that way it's currently designed, I dont see that happening but thats not to say it's a bad fixture. I just would think that if a designer wanted a moving light, that he would get a Vari*Lite or something. But again, not trying to start a war, just voicing my opinion.
     
  16. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    I think the argument against the revolution is that of use. From what I can tell, everyone is expecting the revolution to be just like all of the other movers on the market. The revolution is not meant to be an intelligent light the way the rest of them are. Its not meant to give you cool chase effects, or to change gobo's or anything like that. The revolution is meant to cut down on the number of fixtures you need to hang. It is supposed to be a conventional light-- just one that moves.

    I personally would have to say that use would depend on cost. If the cost of 5 or 6 revolution's is less then the cost of 30 or 40 source fours, then I would say that they are worth the cost (because you can hang 5 or 6 instead of 30 or 40).

    Just my personal opinion.
     
  17. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

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    Seeing how the list price I got for it was three grand that would be around 11 S4s they would have to replace granted you save 11 dimmers which in a small space or a touring situation where they would have to ship the extra dimmers and cable and run the cable it might work out. Personaly I would have to go with some thing else. Like a used CF1200.

    Somewhat on topic has anyone used a I cue or Ellipscan? What are the main diffrences besides price is it speed?
     
  18. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    I have used I-cues. it's just a moving mirror for a conventional.
     
  19. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

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    I know what it just could I get a little more info, was it loud, was it fast, did it hit its mark every time? Did you use them for the look while moving or did you use it to replace other speciles? I would like to know so I can decied if I want to recamend them to the TD for purchese.
     
  20. digitaltec

    digitaltec Active Member

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    I find them to be a pain in the butt. Yes, that are very loud for a theater effect. They are fast, just about as fast as any moving mirror. I used it once as a moving mirror effect for a dance scene and then another time as just a way to shift light from one part of the stage to another. It was a debate function and felt like using it. :)

    Its not to hard to program... just like any mirror I would say but unless you are using it for a musicial or something, it can get anoying.
     

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