ETC unveils new Element™ lighting control consoles, USITT 2009
- Thread starterMNicolai
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Sony
Active Member
Re: ETC Element
Thats not at all what I meant, I would just like an Element with only one or two Encoder wheels for just pan and tilt, thats all. Without going full blown Ion, maybe a couple hundred dollars more than the basic Element but not as much as and Ion. This is what they did with the Smartfade and the Smartfade ML, if they could do it with the Element it would be perfect!
I just find it weird that they can put Encoder wheels on the tiny little Smartfade but can't stick a couple on the Element. Obviously the people who order the "Element ML" would be the ones who know they need encoder wheels and they know how to use them, like me.
They already have it. It's called the Ion....
Thats not at all what I meant, I would just like an Element with only one or two Encoder wheels for just pan and tilt, thats all. Without going full blown Ion, maybe a couple hundred dollars more than the basic Element but not as much as and Ion. This is what they did with the Smartfade and the Smartfade ML, if they could do it with the Element it would be perfect!
I just find it weird that they can put Encoder wheels on the tiny little Smartfade but can't stick a couple on the Element. Obviously the people who order the "Element ML" would be the ones who know they need encoder wheels and they know how to use them, like me.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the RVM works. The abstract for the console does say that it works over network, and I'm hoping it's as simple as connecting the laptop and going. Free dongles are nice... but for small venues, which are the target for this console, I don't see any real reason to require a dongle for RVM features.
Art
Art
Re: ETC Element
I really doubt it. If you NEED encoder wheels then this isn't the console for you. This console is for theaters that rent a gobo rotator once a year and that's about it. The SmartfadeML is specifically targeted at the DJ/Small club market. Element makes no sense for that market.
I've got 6 I-cues, 4 Right Arms, and 20 Sea Changers I run with my encoderless Strand Classic Palette. I've found using the mouse to reposition moving units VERY easy and natural feeling. And with things like color matching and gobo rotator profiles I don't see a need for encoders with my limited inventory... and I'm more advanced than the target market for this console. I think Element will be just fine as it is... especially if it keeps the street price down in the $3k-$4k range.
I really doubt it. If you NEED encoder wheels then this isn't the console for you. This console is for theaters that rent a gobo rotator once a year and that's about it. The SmartfadeML is specifically targeted at the DJ/Small club market. Element makes no sense for that market.
I've got 6 I-cues, 4 Right Arms, and 20 Sea Changers I run with my encoderless Strand Classic Palette. I've found using the mouse to reposition moving units VERY easy and natural feeling. And with things like color matching and gobo rotator profiles I don't see a need for encoders with my limited inventory... and I'm more advanced than the target market for this console. I think Element will be just fine as it is... especially if it keeps the street price down in the $3k-$4k range.
Re: ETC Element
Ok, here we go. The end user asked for a console to fit in between SmartFade and Ion, and as soon as it is released, we want something different? No single console is going to be perfect for everyone, but the manufacturers aren't going to build consoles tailored to each user.
Element is going to be a great fit for the people who whined and complained about not having a console that fits the bill between Ion and Smartfade. They asked for a console that didn't have all the bells and whistles of Ion, but was more functional than Smartfade, well here it is. Guess what, all those Express(ion) users who upgrade to Element are really going to be in for a shock when find out how amazing different from Express(ion) and more similar to Ion it is. If you want to control moving lights you will be able to hook up a mouse or a touchscreen. If you need more sophisticated control then you don't buy Element, you buy Ion.
Consider, as we have discussed many a time in other threads, Express used to cost upwards of $5K (when it was new). That is about equivalent to spending $8K in 2007. I realize that given the economic situation of this country it is harder to justify large capital purchases, but Ion is really not that far off in price from a replacement for even a basic Express(ion).
Ultimately, when it comes down to it the output functionality of an Ion 1K and the highest end Element is pretty darn similar. The software is nearly identical, the biggest difference that most people will see is the buttons on the panel. Like I said before, if you need more power than Element, you buy Ion.
It really amazes me how stubborn people are in this industry (not directed at any one person). For the first time in over 10 years we are seeing major upgrades that are severely needed in the console industry, and what happens? The people want to go back to what they had. Heaven forbid we should advance our industry. As I have said many times, when you make a large capital purchase like a lighting controller, you want it to be somewhat futureproof. Just because you don't use some features now doesn't mean you won't in the future. If you think you [will] need more than what a lower end console is offering, get the higher end console, don't complain that the low end doesn't do what you want it to.
I am sorry for the rant, but it really bugs me that in the face of the progression of technology we hear so many complaints and criticisms. We are looking at long overdue updates to the technology we rely on, this is a good thing! If a console doesn't do all that you need it to, don't complain about it, buy the console that does do what you need it to!
Ok, here we go. The end user asked for a console to fit in between SmartFade and Ion, and as soon as it is released, we want something different? No single console is going to be perfect for everyone, but the manufacturers aren't going to build consoles tailored to each user.
Element is going to be a great fit for the people who whined and complained about not having a console that fits the bill between Ion and Smartfade. They asked for a console that didn't have all the bells and whistles of Ion, but was more functional than Smartfade, well here it is. Guess what, all those Express(ion) users who upgrade to Element are really going to be in for a shock when find out how amazing different from Express(ion) and more similar to Ion it is. If you want to control moving lights you will be able to hook up a mouse or a touchscreen. If you need more sophisticated control then you don't buy Element, you buy Ion.
Consider, as we have discussed many a time in other threads, Express used to cost upwards of $5K (when it was new). That is about equivalent to spending $8K in 2007. I realize that given the economic situation of this country it is harder to justify large capital purchases, but Ion is really not that far off in price from a replacement for even a basic Express(ion).
Ultimately, when it comes down to it the output functionality of an Ion 1K and the highest end Element is pretty darn similar. The software is nearly identical, the biggest difference that most people will see is the buttons on the panel. Like I said before, if you need more power than Element, you buy Ion.
It really amazes me how stubborn people are in this industry (not directed at any one person). For the first time in over 10 years we are seeing major upgrades that are severely needed in the console industry, and what happens? The people want to go back to what they had. Heaven forbid we should advance our industry. As I have said many times, when you make a large capital purchase like a lighting controller, you want it to be somewhat futureproof. Just because you don't use some features now doesn't mean you won't in the future. If you think you [will] need more than what a lower end console is offering, get the higher end console, don't complain that the low end doesn't do what you want it to.
I am sorry for the rant, but it really bugs me that in the face of the progression of technology we hear so many complaints and criticisms. We are looking at long overdue updates to the technology we rely on, this is a good thing! If a console doesn't do all that you need it to, don't complain about it, buy the console that does do what you need it to!
Sony
Active Member
I haven't seen/heard anything about it except what I read on the ETC website, but I think that this is an amazing innovation. It gives the industry what they need/wanted: a lower end console with hands on fader control while still having LTP channel control and tracking. LTP and tracking are the way of the future (and present), but people are inhibited in the ETC world mostly because if you want those you have to lose your channel faders and go expensive. This is a smart move for ETC because there are consoles out there from other manufacturers offering basically the same thing; they probably would have lost some loyal ETC customers if this didn't come soon enough. My only wish for this console would be a trackball instead of a wheel or trackpad. A ball would make navigating the screens easy and is also great for ML parameter settings. But I have never used the board so I don't know.
$.02
-Tim
$.02
-Tim
Remember to stop thinking of this new generation of light boards as the old proprietary custom built devices. It's really just a PC in a case with a fancy custom made control surface that plugs into the PC via USB . SO, the beauty is if you want a track ball just go down to your local computer shop, buy one for $30 and plug it into a USB port on the back. To back up or cary files around, just pop a USB flash drive in the back. Just about any USB device you can think of will work with this new generation of consoles.
Re: ETC Element
Since most of the marketing people are off at the trade show, I'll do a bit of a response to this. While this might not be exactly what you are looking for, Element will allow you to plug in a trackball or mouse and a user can use switch that pointing device into a mode that can control pan and tilt. That would probably be the easiest solution for those needs, and works a heck of a lot better than the Express touchpad ever did. And I know a number of our users have asked for the trackball/mouse functionality on Eos and Ion as well, and those consoles have encoders. (And the support for this will be in the 1.5 release of the software. ).
The trackball/mouse option isn't going to be best option for everyone, but it is another solution available outside of the Element ML controls.
-Doc
Since most of the marketing people are off at the trade show, I'll do a bit of a response to this. While this might not be exactly what you are looking for, Element will allow you to plug in a trackball or mouse and a user can use switch that pointing device into a mode that can control pan and tilt. That would probably be the easiest solution for those needs, and works a heck of a lot better than the Express touchpad ever did. And I know a number of our users have asked for the trackball/mouse functionality on Eos and Ion as well, and those consoles have encoders. (And the support for this will be in the 1.5 release of the software.
). The trackball/mouse option isn't going to be best option for everyone, but it is another solution available outside of the Element ML controls.
-Doc
JackMVHS
Member
Sony
Active Member
Re: ETC Element
Thank you Doc! If that is true then I have no issues, a USB Mouse Trackball with direct control would be great!
As for everyone else, I'm sorry for voicing my complaints...but this is a forum for DISCUSSION...god help that I actually discuss something I personally perceive as a possible problem. You guys are all hailing this console as if it's the rebirth of Christ in the 21st Century and attacking me because I might see ONE small problem with that theory. I also hate how everyone keeps saying "If you need encoders then go get an Ion!" when the fact is, I only have 4 Apollo Right Arm's, 16 SmartColor Scrollers and 2 Gobo Rotators, and programming movement for those things do not justify spending 3 to 4 more grand on the next level up of console. Now if I had a couple MAC 250's or Elation Moving Heads then yes, I would grab the Ion. However what I have been saying this whole time is that if the Element has a suitable Control Surface for XY movement (Which many of you say it DOES HAVE, which would make my argument moot) then it is the perfect console for me. However if it does not, and it is a pain to program even just the 4 Right Arm's I have like it was on the Express. Then I think it would be a good idea for ETC to market an ML version for 500 to 1000 dollars more for people like me who only need 1 or 2 encoders or something to just program a few Right Arm's but don't need all the fancy features of an Ion.
However Doc has answered my question most thoroughly and if what he says is true then I have nothing to worry about and my paranoia is truly unfounded. Please drop any further discussion on this topic as it seems to have only stirred up trouble.
Since most of the marketing people are off at the trade show, I'll do a bit of a response to this. While this might not be exactly what you are looking for, Element will allow you to plug in a trackball or mouse and a user can use switch that pointing device into a mode that can control pan and tilt. That would probably be the easiest solution for those needs, and works a heck of a lot better than the Express touchpad ever did. And I know a number of our users have asked for the trackball/mouse functionality on Eos and Ion as well, and those consoles have encoders. (And the support for this will be in the 1.5 release of the software.
The trackball/mouse option isn't going to be best option for everyone, but it is another solution available outside of the Element ML controls.
-Doc
Thank you Doc! If that is true then I have no issues, a USB Mouse Trackball with direct control would be great!
As for everyone else, I'm sorry for voicing my complaints...but this is a forum for DISCUSSION...god help that I actually discuss something I personally perceive as a possible problem. You guys are all hailing this console as if it's the rebirth of Christ in the 21st Century and attacking me because I might see ONE small problem with that theory. I also hate how everyone keeps saying "If you need encoders then go get an Ion!" when the fact is, I only have 4 Apollo Right Arm's, 16 SmartColor Scrollers and 2 Gobo Rotators, and programming movement for those things do not justify spending 3 to 4 more grand on the next level up of console. Now if I had a couple MAC 250's or Elation Moving Heads then yes, I would grab the Ion. However what I have been saying this whole time is that if the Element has a suitable Control Surface for XY movement (Which many of you say it DOES HAVE, which would make my argument moot) then it is the perfect console for me. However if it does not, and it is a pain to program even just the 4 Right Arm's I have like it was on the Express. Then I think it would be a good idea for ETC to market an ML version for 500 to 1000 dollars more for people like me who only need 1 or 2 encoders or something to just program a few Right Arm's but don't need all the fancy features of an Ion.
However Doc has answered my question most thoroughly and if what he says is true then I have nothing to worry about and my paranoia is truly unfounded. Please drop any further discussion on this topic as it seems to have only stirred up trouble.
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ETC Element Demo
Here is the demo with Sarah Clausen that I shot yesterday. Hopefully this will answer some questions that have been asked.
[blip]AfTYIpWBYw[/blip]
I uploaded this on blip.tv(top) and on vimeo (bottom) Which do you like better?
[vimeo]3807323[/vimeo]
Here is the demo with Sarah Clausen that I shot yesterday. Hopefully this will answer some questions that have been asked.
[blip]AfTYIpWBYw[/blip]
I uploaded this on blip.tv(top) and on vimeo (bottom) Which do you like better?
[vimeo]3807323[/vimeo]
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Dave, that was a great thing, we need to find a way to get more content like that on CB!
LightingPenguin
Active Member
beachcombah15
Member
Bravo to Sarah and all those at ETC who have come out with another great console! I myself, being an Ion user, am looking forward to getting a little time with the Element. I really do think it is great that more and more people/students will be able to adjust to/learn the fine qualities of tracking without having to use more complex/more expensive boards.
