Existing Theatre Add Ons

macsound

Well-Known Member
Smaller local theatre is wanting to add to existing DMX locations, mainly because for some recent shows they have been renting moving lights and 300' of DMX to string between.
In a new build its somewhat more obvious that having a node drop on every electric is desired. But what about when you're retrofitting?
I'm thinking about other spaces that were either temp or perm and sometimes we'd install an opto and dmx to a couple of common locations.

If this particular theater only has one node drop, how do you decide when to add a switch and more nodes vs an opto and run DMX?
This question could apply to any existing theatre or even corporate events.
How do you decide?
Thanks!
 
Putting in Gateways gives you a lot more flexibility, especially if you ever want to use multiple controllers. Most desks nowadays have Ethernet out (sACN) and will soon support RDMnet. If you have Cat5 tie-lines, you can run DMX512 or Ethernet, but if you build up an inventory of gateways, adding switches at either end of the tie-lines gives you so many options.
 
I know the tradeoffs, but assuming a theatre (or hotel or conference center) built in the 80s or so. Not super old so it's not a complete retrofit from 0-10v, but had no thought of the future. There's 1 DMX port on a wall offstage.
In general, here's my internal dialogue:
How many different sections need DMX. If it's more than 2 (like FOH & Stage) I'll run network and nodes. But what if it's just a hazer onstage and two moving lights in box booms. I'll just rent and run DMX.
So maybe even more in corporate, like 2 month theatre runs and small venue retrofit.
Where do you draw the line to determine what you buy or rent.


PS. I don't think there's an answer here. More of a conversation of what people think about when deciding the rental or the retrofit.
 
On a black box retrofit, 70x60 ish, that opened in Oct ‘19, we dropped in 96 Ethernet data lines. 72 are around the theater in 18 - 4 port boxes, plus 4 - 4 port boxes in the Booth. There’s a network each for Audio, Video, Utility and Lighting. All cables to a Mid-Atlantic rack with patchbays and Cisco PoE switches per network.

The very first show in this theater saw 180 units of which roughly 50 are LED’s, with 6 ETC 2 port gateways. Thing about LED and movers is they eat DMX addresses. Audio Is now Dante with powered speakers and ethernet distro. The SM cue light system uses Cat 5.

I thought this was a bit over-the-top when I asked for it, now I’m thinking it’ll all get used.
 
In my experience nodes and optos are about the same price at this point, so you don't save much by going with straight dmx.

Where you might save is complexity. I don't know your staff, but optos are rock solid and plug and play, using nodes well requires a more knowledge of networking, software, and planning
 
In my experience nodes and optos are about the same price at this point, so you don't save much by going with straight dmx.

Where you might save is complexity. I don't know your staff, but optos are rock solid and plug and play, using nodes well requires a more knowledge of networking, software, and planning
Very good point. I still lean towards the nodes because of somewhat less wiring - unlimited universes on one wire - but mostly seems more future proof.
 
How "small" is this venue and what kind of season/use do they typically run in a year? What's the current inventory and are there plans to upgrade in the near future? Is it volunteer staff or paid staff? What kind of shows are they doing? Is there a budget number?
I agree that opto would be my choice for plug and play and ease of use by smaller/volunteer staff. You can find them used pretty easily too, to save on $$. Otherwise, nodes are great (as others have said) for future planning, etc.
 
It was more of a broad question.
It has happened to me many times at a theatre or hotel and I never had a good reason to decide - Ok for this one I'm renting 200' of DMX - but the next show in the same space, a different designer might run CAT5.
At this point I'm chalking it up to choice unless someone sees a hard fast guideline.
 
It was more of a broad question.
It has happened to me many times at a theatre or hotel and I never had a good reason to decide - Ok for this one I'm renting 200' of DMX - but the next show in the same space, a different designer might run CAT5.
At this point I'm chalking it up to choice unless someone sees a hard fast guideline.
@macsound Have you ever looked into / studied TMB's adapters which run four pairs of XLR5's via one run of overall shielded CAT cable??
TMB offer XLR5 female break ins and XLR5 male break outs to get you into and out of overall shielded CAT cable.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Smaller local theatre is wanting to add to existing DMX locations, mainly because for some recent shows they have been renting moving lights and 300' of DMX to string between.
In a new build its somewhat more obvious that having a node drop on every electric is desired. But what about when you're retrofitting?
I'm thinking about other spaces that were either temp or perm and sometimes we'd install an opto and dmx to a couple of common locations.

If this particular theater only has one node drop, how do you decide when to add a switch and more nodes vs an opto and run DMX?
This question could apply to any existing theatre or even corporate events.
How do you decide?
Thanks!
Particularly in a black box, the question isn't nodes or splitters, it's nodes and splitters. A solution we have seen is to provide permanently installed ethernet cabling that provides some number of DMX outputs, and then take those outputs and drop multiple DMX512 hub-in-a-wall-box to cut down on the amount of cabling lying on trusses and other places it ought not to be. To this end we provide DMX-Net RDM which is a DMX/RDM single output data hub
that fits in a standard gang box with a cover plate. To the user, it looks like a passive DMX wall plate but gets around
loading rules and location of "controller feed" . The big advantages are that the show electrician doesn't need to
worry about whether he's created a significant "wye" or star network. Each outlet is fully buffered, each outlet can
be placed near where the data is to be used, and if driven by a 1.31 node, you can choose what universes appear
where. This makes bringing in rental gear simpler.
Bob Goddard
 
I'm not that far away from that generally, but I put all the nodes in a rack (or two for larger spaces) and distribute DMX to most positions, and also network for access points, console connection, portable nodes, future who knows what, etc. The user doesn't have to know network but can learn and use it.
 
I'm not that far away from that generally, but I put all the nodes in a rack (or two for larger spaces) and distribute DMX to most positions, and also network for access points, console connection, portable nodes, future who knows what, etc. The user doesn't have to know network but can learn and use it.
That's my style too.
I find multi port gateways less expensive to buy and install. But all cable is net capable! Jumper from switch to get net at the lights.
 

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