Express 48/96 + Movers

with led's I would suggest you group them and not have an indivdual address for each, remember that you don 't need a dimmer channel. The multiple addresses are typically use to allow you to control the various led colors in the different parts of the led "field" Most people who have worked with them think it is not overly useful, so an other alternative is to group the same color led's in the instrument together, and thus reduce the number of dmx channels.

Sharyn
 
The LED units I am using are a 7 channel, RGB unit with 3 channels of red and then 2 of green and blue each. My intent was to address certain units similiarly depending on the region of the stage I was using them in, and then in soft patch, patch the multiple addresses of each color per area together thus giving me only 3 channels per area. That should help with the programming nightmare.
Additionally, using the offline editor, I have already begun to create macros and focus points for various moving light attributes. Simple things like gobo selection and lamp intensity have been easy to pre-program. However, without the aid of a complicated pre-vis program, I will have to make macros and focus points in real time for things such as CYM mixing and actual movement of the mirrors and heads.
I was also planning on pathing the VL2500s in at 1 and 49 on the board, basically stacking them on top of each other which will hopefully make grabing faders during the limited programming time easier.
 
You can set up as many of your leds on the same dmx address as you want, just of course you have to leave the spacing for the control channels as usual.

Here is what I have found out:
the multiple controls for the same color are of little use, in practice most of the colors are one main color and then add an amount of a single other color, and the concept of only adding part of one of the colors really is maybe great in theory but not all the useful in practice, Personally I like a simple 4 channel led device, with individual dimming on the r g b and then an overall dim on the instrument

Sharyn
 
I prefer not to use an Express when dealing with anything other than conventionals or color changers/strobes. With the leds, separate the RGB or CMY (depending on the instrument) onto different faders. I've never used an express with movers. I'm suggest renting an expression 2 or three so that you can have the encoder wheels. Makes mover programming much easier.
 
I prefer not to use an Express when dealing with anything other than conventionals or color changers/strobes. With the leds, separate the RGB or CMY (depending on the instrument) onto different faders. I've never used an express with movers. I'm suggest renting an expression 2 or three so that you can have the encoder wheels. Makes mover programming much easier.
no, no one should ever rent a expression board for moving lights, ugh...
 
pie4weebl-

you don't like the expression for moving lights? I've have pretty good success with an expression 3 and a whole pile of movers. I mean, yeah, I'd love to have a hog or a virtuoso or something, but beggars can't be choosers...if I had the budget I'd be renting a more butch board to handle the gear but I'm already bursting through the budget as it is...god **** express!
 
another option is to get a pc based system just for the movers. Some of the systems are pretty reasonably priced.
On the low end price wise there are a lot of people who, just for movers, use the elation Showdesigner 1, they sell for about 600 dollars

Sharyn
 
with led's I would suggest you group them and not have an indivdual address for each, remember that you don 't need a dimmer channel.
Sharyn

Not always.

Coemar Parlite LED has a dimmer channel, plus RBG, plus a channel for strobing and another for programs.

Advanced Lighting LiveLED has 5 channels, RGB and 2 program channels.

Personally, I like as much individual control as the desk allows.

Jezza, If the desk you have isn't big enough for the lights and you plan on renting 4 movers and some led, perhaps you can rent a larger desk to control them. An Avo Pearl, a Hog, even a LightJockey would do. If you plan carefully enough, what you rent will accept dmx in, so your ETC stays as your conventional board, with presets built in, and you just run it into the Hog or whatever, and run that out for everything else.
 
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From the sound of your previous posts, I get the impression that you've already advanced quite a way into pre-programming your show; and I don't know how much your preferences would match mine, but this is how I would do it:
First of all, I agree with everyone else that an actual moving light board would be the best solution. Since that is not an option, though, I think it would be easiest to run all of your intstruments off of one of the Expresses. The unfortunate thing about this (and I don't know your exact needs) is that I have no idea if you actually can. The moving lights alone are going to take up 78 control channels on the Express (make sure your Technobeams are in 17-channel mode and not 18, unless you're using the LAD), and if you really have a dozen LEDs, those are going to take an additional 84. This only leaves you with 30 channels to patch your conventionals. Like I said, I don't know if you can get away with ganging that many instruments, but I would suggest modifying your patch any way you can to allow all lights to be run off of the one board. The fact is (which was stated previously) that the Express' MSC capabilities are limited solely to cue and macro firing, which is fine if you can program all cues and looks ahead of time with ample time to rehearse. For programming on the fly, though, you don't want to be stuck with no control.
I agree with the consensus that you should utilize the Focus Points and the "Only" command; this is a very powerful combination, and is really the only thing on an Express that makes moving light programming bearable. Definitely program any gobo wheels, FX prisms and standard colors that you need int Focus Points, making sure to have a cheat sheet handy so you don't forget which is which--the labeling feature in Expression Offline is a plus, but you can't actually view the list unless you're in Blind mode, so be sure to have pen and paper. Be careful, though: the console only allows for 99 Focus Points, so don't get overzealous with your presets.
There is, of course, still the problem of CYM mixing. The layout of the 48/96 allows individual fader control for each of its first 96 channels. If you are able to fit everything on one board (and even if you're not), I would patch all of my movers in sequence starting on channel one (ie. VL1 @ Ch1, VL2 @ Ch23, TB1 @ 45, TB2 @ 62). With this patch (and a little board tape), you would be able to quickly find your CYM channels and adjust them as necessary via our favorite tool: faders. This is likewise for focus, zoom, iris and anything else you want to slightly adjust.
As far as postioning, as long as you don't bump the sensitivity buttons, I've never had a problem using the trackpad. In fact, I've always found it rather effective (not as effective as wheels and dials, but for a conventional board it's pretty good).
If, for whatever reason, you absolutely cannot fit everything on one board, you might think about slaving the boards in reverse. Instead of using the conventionals' board as the master, use the moving light board as the master. When it comes down to it, the moving lights are going to require alot more TLC than the conventionals will, and you'll want to have as much control of them as you can. You can use cues and macros to set conventional looks and fire those off of the ML's board. With a maximum cue list of 600 and up to 2,000 macros, I think you would be fine.
This is how I can see accomodating for fastest programming. You will still need to allow some time before the show (I'm hoping you have more than two hours before showtime to set up) to actually set the looks you want, but this is the way I would set up the system if I were in this situation.
Hope this is helpful. Good luck; I look forward to haring how the show turns out.
 
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FlyBoy, thanks a bunch, yeah unfortunately another board just isn't an option so it was really great for some intensive advice with how to work my situation. I'm already well into the macro situation, basically building over and over a macro to grab instruments and channels and then as soon as I get into the space with the units I can actually punch in values. I've got about a week from when the units come in till the show goes up so I'm confident I'll have enough time. Still, its going to have to be a lot of stupidly late nights to get the show cued up as tight as I want it to be. Thanks a bunch!
 
pie4weebl-
you don't like the expression for moving lights? I've have pretty good success with an expression 3 and a whole pile of movers. I mean, yeah, I'd love to have a hog or a virtuoso or something, but beggars can't be choosers...if I had the budget I'd be renting a more butch board to handle the gear but I'm already bursting through the budget as it is...god **** express!

I mean the expression is fine for movers and if you have to rent a boared and its not much more than an express it would be fine. In my situation the theatre had an express board and then rented an expression to run everything off of instead of spending a whole lot less and getting a small moving light board on the side for the movers. But if the theatre doesn't have any light board in stock, I could see renting an expression.
 

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