Massey28694
Active Member
What does the 880 in your screenshot represent?
Express channels, DMX, and strobes
- Thread starterMassey28694
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Jekyll
Member
Hey there,
A couple things are being left off that are kind of important. And a couple that aren't important, but definitely are worth doing to keep your programming world clean (images attached):
1) Anything you are not using DMX-wise, UNPATCH. So, if you only have 48 dimmers, go to PATCH and press DIM 49 thru 1024 ENTER 0 ENTER. This unpatches EVERYTHING above 48.
http://theaco.ca/express_49thru1024_unpatched.PNG
2) Multi-address fixtures (like your strobes) in Express do not automatically patch all their necessary addresses on its own like the EOS software does. So you need to assign all 3 addresses of the strobes to make them work properly. Therefore, "DIM 513 ENTER 80 ENTER", "DIM 514 ENTER 81 ENTER", "DIM 515 ENTER 82 ENTER". This patches all 3 addresses of the strobe fixture onto 3 consecutive control channels on your Express.
http://theaco.ca/express_strobe_patched.PNG
3) As you said, 80 should now control intensity, 81 speed, 82 duration (or special functions). Note though...I would NOT suggest putting channels 81 & 82 at full and leaving them there. Any strobe fixture has what is called a "duty cycle". So if the strobe tube is turned on at FULL in all 3 channels, the fixture will only last for a few seconds before it shuts itself down and goes into a duty cycle to cool down. I would suggest starting with 80 at FULL. Then slowly add 81 at maybe 10%. Duration (3rd channel - 82) is how long the strobe stays lit each time it flashes.
4) Finally, I would go to the strobe fixture and ensure you are actually in 3 channel mode on it. The thing with DMX gear of any kind is that even if the fixture is in the wrong mode, it may still work but some channels won't do anything as you think they should. And other times, especially with moving fixtures, you may not have proper control of anything as the console may think your fixture is in 16bit mode when its actually only in 8bit mode (mostly for fine movement control which takes 2 addresses each for pan and tilt).
Hope this helps and gets your strobes flashing!
Cheers
Darren
Darren W. Hales
Head Electrician
Arts Club Granville Island Stage
Vancouver, BC
I'd even take this one step further. I learned a very long time ago, it's best to unpatch all dimmers to start with a clean slate. Therefore, DIM 1 thru 1024 ENTER 0 ENTER. This prevents holdover from default patch unused dimmers left in same channel number.
Of course if you WANT dimmers/channels to be the same, there's no need to unpatch just to repatch them back where they were. YMMV.
.
Massey28694
Active Member
@Jekyll Jekyll, thanks so much for the great info. As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to run by and set these up and try again! I'm slowly learning and just last nite read that these strobes have a 5 minute startup delay, so that in itself could be why I can't get them to work. In any case, quick question on the cleanup. Our channels are spread out with maybe a half dozen above 48 (the number of dimmers we have) probably just for convenience remembering which fixutre numbers are on which circuit. But my question, I do NOT have to use all dmx addresses in order, correct?? If I want to assign say channel 150 to a dimmer for whatever reason, it would make no difference that my dmx addresses are not all used in order, correct?
Again, appreciate everyone's help!
Again, appreciate everyone's help!
Massey28694
Active Member
@Massey28694 My turn to ask a question: How are you powering your three strobes?
Possible choices:
1; Plugged directly into a handy / nearby duplex utility receptacle?
(Fine choice; unplug them after each performance and plug them in before your next pre-performance lamp check.)
2; Plugged into a convenient NON-DIM circuit?
(An excellent choice provided the non-dim is rated for sufficient amperage to power all of your strobes simultaneously plus you can probably switch off your non-dim from your lighting board or lighting booth or dimmer rack between performances without needing to physically unplug your strobes to ensure they're fully powered down overnight.
3; From a dimmer set to 100%?
NO! Bad choice; DON'T DO THIS. NO!!!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Massey28694
Active Member
@RonHebbard Ron, I am plugging these into sufficiently rated duplex outlets. I admit I considered using dimmer circuits to bring power to locations with limited electric, but quickly dismissed that idea after reading advice here on CB. Thank you for watching out for me! Need all the help I can get!
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
@Massey28694
Something I did not see mentioned is addressing a fixture on universe 2. Although universe 2 is 513 - 1024 so for the first strobe that you patch on 513, subtract 512 which equal 1 That is what the dip switch should be set to that Fixtures connected to universe 2 .
Let's say you add a fourth fixture (3 channel strobes) set the adress to 10. Then add 512 and patch channel 80 to address 522.
Something I did not see mentioned is addressing a fixture on universe 2. Although universe 2 is 513 - 1024 so for the first strobe that you patch on 513, subtract 512 which equal 1 That is what the dip switch should be set to that Fixtures connected to universe 2 .
Let's say you add a fourth fixture (3 channel strobes) set the adress to 10. Then add 512 and patch channel 80 to address 522.
@Massey28694 I've been thinking about your strobe's five minute delay: Just a thought; what if you have them plugged in & powered up, leave the intensity channel at 0% and preset your rate and duration channels in a much earlier cue then snap your intensity channel to your desired level in a zero count in the cue where you want your strobes to fire?
@Jekyll and @derekleffew @Anybody else Thoughts?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Yes, that's how I'd do it. Mark the NIPs (Non-Intensity Parameters) just like one would with a moving light. But I quibble with "in a much earlier cue." Needn't/shouldn't be much earlier. I like MIB cues executed just before their values are needed, usually as an auto-follow to the previous cue. The only time this become a problem is when it takes a long time to complete the movement (scroller going from frame 1 to frame 24 for example) before the next cue.
@derekleffew @Massey28694 and @Jekyll My thinking was: If the strobes have a five minute delay; preset the rate and duration channels either in your initial preset at the top of each performance or in a cue approximately 5 minutes prior to the cue in which you want them to fire. Presetting the strobes a few seconds prior would not give them the 5 minutes they're apparently requiring.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
I've never used this particular fixture, but would think the "five minute delay" is from the time the unit receives power (perhaps to initially charge its capacitors?), not from the time any parameter values are changed. It appears the Diversitronic dk2000 is a copy of the beloved High End Systems AF1000 Dataflash. The manual is a bit vague in many places.
@derekleffew In one of my previous posts in this thread I queried @Massey28694 as to how he was powering his strobes. From his reply I gather he already has his strobes powered and ready to rock, yet he's still facing his five minute delay.
@Massey28694 @Jekyll @derekleffew Care to keep playing along?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Jekyll
Member
So here is my guess since I’ve never used that brand of fixture before...
Once powered, the fixture’s electronics take about 5 minutes to “warm up” much like a fogger or hazer. But once that 5 minutes has passed, other than tube duty cycle, the fixture should keep running regardless of the channel levels (intensity, speed and duration).
That’s my thoughts and 2 cents! Love to hear other opinions, or if anyone has the definitive answer.
Darren W. Hales
Head Electrician
Arts Club Granville Island Stage
Vancouver, BC
In the 1980s, Diversitronics was the largest (or at least most well-known) manufacturer of strobe effects. Their website suggests they're now out of business, except for replacement lamps. I used their pre-DMX strobes, mostly the Super Strobe, many times, and never experienced any issues with a warm-up time, or duty cycle. Never had this with Dataflashes either.
The manual page for the DK-2000 mentions
I agree with your theory, @Jekyll . I suspect OP and @RonHebbard may be mistaken.
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One thing I did have a problem with, only once: In a large ballroom, I had one strobe on each side of the room, just plugged into the wall, and wanted to trigger and flash them simultaneously. This was accomplished using a 4pin XLR "twofer" and the Super Strobe's dedicated controller. The two strobes would not fire together, and IIRC, would sometimes flash all by themselves, with the controller off. Turns out the two wall outlets on opposite sides of the room were on different phases, thus confusing the units' internal sync timings. Lesson learned. In fact, I learned many valuable lessons about various electrical topics at the Palmer House in Chicago in the 1980s; but those are different stories.
The manual page for the DK-2000 mentions
Not sure if this is a special mode or standard operating procedure.
I agree with your theory, @Jekyll . I suspect OP and @RonHebbard may be mistaken.
-----
One thing I did have a problem with, only once: In a large ballroom, I had one strobe on each side of the room, just plugged into the wall, and wanted to trigger and flash them simultaneously. This was accomplished using a 4pin XLR "twofer" and the Super Strobe's dedicated controller. The two strobes would not fire together, and IIRC, would sometimes flash all by themselves, with the controller off. Turns out the two wall outlets on opposite sides of the room were on different phases, thus confusing the units' internal sync timings. Lesson learned. In fact, I learned many valuable lessons about various electrical topics at the Palmer House in Chicago in the 1980s; but those are different stories.
Massey28694
Active Member
Gentlemen, I am happy to report success! My strobes are strobing and look even better than anticipated! Though I was about to question my sanity, I stuck with it and finally found that stupid rookie mistake.
I have this simple little app on my iPad to quickly calculate dmx addresses. It renders the position of the dipswiches, with a little drawing showing dip switch 1 is 1, 2 is 2, 3 is 4, 4 is 8, etc. Well, if you tell me turn on dip 3 and 5, I’m gonna turn on 3 and 5! Keep in mind these are used strobes and the dip values were not very legible on the back of the instruments. Turns out my dips are valued backwards to what I assumed was standard (I know, never assume anything!). 1 is 256, 2 is 128, etc. So all the time I was asking the board to hit U2 Chan 1, I actually had my strobe dip with #1 on, thus addressed to 256! No wonder the dang thing wouldn’t fire!! I had finally hooked up a second unit to be sure it wasn’t a bad lamp or something and noticed the numbering. Set the instrument with the correct dmx and she works like a charm! Even daisy-chained a few and no problems!
You guys have been absolutely priceless to a newbie like me. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. You’ve hooked me and I’ll be back with more puzzles for you, I’m sure (though I hope I don’t look quite as bad next time!). If you’re ever in my little corner of the world, please do give a shout out, love to show you around our little venue. Again, thank you all!
I have this simple little app on my iPad to quickly calculate dmx addresses. It renders the position of the dipswiches, with a little drawing showing dip switch 1 is 1, 2 is 2, 3 is 4, 4 is 8, etc. Well, if you tell me turn on dip 3 and 5, I’m gonna turn on 3 and 5! Keep in mind these are used strobes and the dip values were not very legible on the back of the instruments. Turns out my dips are valued backwards to what I assumed was standard (I know, never assume anything!). 1 is 256, 2 is 128, etc. So all the time I was asking the board to hit U2 Chan 1, I actually had my strobe dip with #1 on, thus addressed to 256! No wonder the dang thing wouldn’t fire!! I had finally hooked up a second unit to be sure it wasn’t a bad lamp or something and noticed the numbering. Set the instrument with the correct dmx and she works like a charm! Even daisy-chained a few and no problems!
You guys have been absolutely priceless to a newbie like me. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. You’ve hooked me and I’ll be back with more puzzles for you, I’m sure (though I hope I don’t look quite as bad next time!). If you’re ever in my little corner of the world, please do give a shout out, love to show you around our little venue. Again, thank you all!
@Massey28694 We progress and learn by remembering both our successes and our failures. If you've truly learned your lesson well, I suspect you won't make that error / assumption again. Congratulations on your progress; in the future I suspect you'll recall "Your knowledge of strobes came to you in a FLASH!! "
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Massey28694
Active Member
@RonHebbard LOL! Good one, Ron! Yep, you can bet good money I won’t be making that mistake again. Appreciate you sir!
