Failed Building Inspection on Set

FWIW I learned 1X6 and 3/4 ply with framing on 32" centers, 2X4 legs at the corners. Of course at that time 1X6 was 5 5/8 x 7/8.

A lot of this seems to be concern for failure in bending but in the real world of buildings deflection generally controls design.

Regrettable that it's so hard - expensive I suppose - to get into stressed skin construction - triscuits I guess they are popularly called. I got such a kick out the first stressed skin platform I worked on - 4'X16 spanning the 16' between supports with 1 x 4s skinned with 3/8 ply. Very cool.
 
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FWIW I learned 1X6 and 3/4 ply with framing on 32" centers, 2X4 legs at the corners. Of course at that time 1X6 was 5 5/8 x 7/8.

A lot of this seems to be concern for failure in bending but in the real world of buildings deflection generally controls design.

Regrettable that it's so hard - expensive I suppose - to get into stressed skin construction - triscuits I guess they are popularly called. I got such a kick out the first stressed skin platform I worked on - 4'X16 spanning the 16' between supports with 1 x 4s skinned with 3/8 ply. Very cool.

Good lord you must be old!! LOL You could probably get relatively clear lumber then too, much better quality.
 
Good lord you must be old!! LOL You could probably get relatively clear lumber then too, much better quality.

That's how we build our platforms. Just closed a show with a bunch of them.
 
I too learned 1x6 but we used 24" centers and 1/2" ply.

Yes it was better wood, by 1985 it was getting hard to find #2 pine that didn't cost like #1 and/or look like #3. Also, one person could pick up a 4x8 and move it comfortably. THAT was a key criteria.

It's also worth noting that the master carp. was a true craftsman, worked for years in construction and did sculpture as a hobby. There were a few times we did heavier work. 42nd Street comes to mind, several people on one platform, jumping up and down together, night after night.
 
4'x8' platforms framed with 2x4, 2' 8" toggle spacing and CDX or OSB skin (my research indicates that OSB has the same weight rating as Ply, but is just inherently more flexible) have a weight capacity equal to that of current homes at 125lbs x sq. ft even distribution. (IRC). The bigger issue is actually the way platforms are legged and assembled. Drywall screws have no rating. Other types of screws, such as some construction grade Torx, and nails and bolts do. 2x4 pine is actually very strong along the length dimension (as are most wood products). However, lateral deflection in the 2x4's used as legs can be a major issue. Proper cross bracing helps to alleviate this concern, even in the face of horrible distortion of the shape of the 2x4. For Rent we built the main part of the set using 14'x5' 2x6 platforms with (8) 7'6 2x4 legs. Proper hardware in joining the legs to platforms and platform to platform meant this was somewhat disconcerting, but acceptable and safe for the number of actors we had on it. Were we to use four platforms with (6) legs each insead of two with (8) legs each, 2x4 framing would have been acceptable, but would have resulted into three seams with double legs as compared to only one seam with double legs (center seam).

I agree with Derek. Structural Design for the Stage is a great resource. It is also on my wishlist (I am currently not TD'ing enough to warrant purchasing it). The BackStage Handbook also has much valuable information for constructing scenery.
 
Thinking about it, the 1X6 - as long as there are no major flaws - is stiffer and probably calcs out pretty good in bending as well. It's been a while since I used this stuff.

The nice thing about 1x6 - it's a good riser height. Seems like a 2x4 framed platform is useless without legs.
 
Thinking about it, the 1X6 - as long as there are no major flaws - is stiffer and probably calcs out pretty good in bending as well. It's been a while since I used this stuff.

The nice thing about 1x6 - it's a good riser height. Seems like a 2x4 framed platform is useless without legs.

I'm forever thankful for leg-o-matic braces. I can make my platforms any reasonable height. I have a set of 2 x 4 legs to make the total platform height 8" or 12". The 8" height is for landings for stairs and general use in plays. The 12" is for musicians (drums, big band trumpet or trombone sections). I have a set of legs for 16" also that I use with an 8" step unit.
 
I'm forever thankful for leg-o-matic braces. I can make my platforms any reasonable height. I have a set of 2 x 4 legs to make the total platform height 8" or 12". The 8" height is for landings for stairs and general use in plays. The 12" is for musicians (drums, big band trumpet or trombone sections). I have a set of legs for 16" also that I use with an 8" step unit.

I have boxes, little rectangular boxes. If I set them this way I have a 6" deck, This way an 8" deck or that way a 12" deck. I love using triscuits but you can use the same boxes with Decks/platforms.
 
I have boxes, little rectangular boxes. If I set them this way I have a 6" deck, This way an 8" deck or that way a 12" deck. I love using triscuits but you can use the same boxes with Decks/platforms.

We used to just have stacks of studwalls for this. Care to post a picture of the boxes? Or they just apple boxes?
 
We used to just have stacks of studwalls for this. Care to post a picture of the boxes? Or they just apple boxes?

for that matter how are they attached? I get the rectangle concept but do you have a method that keeps them from getting torn up with screw holes or bolt holes?
 
We used to just have stacks of studwalls for this. Care to post a picture of the boxes? Or they just apple boxes?
8952-failed-building-inspection-set-deckblock.jpg

for that matter how are they attached? I get the rectangle concept but do you have a method that keeps them from getting torn up with screw holes or bolt holes?

For most applications the triscuits can simply sit on top of the box. All my Triscuits have holes drilled at points around the perimeter to allow for a 4 -6" deck screw for those times I need to attach them to knee walls. I also have a HUGE stock of standard sized knee-walls for taller decks. Anything over 12" gets unstable without more support than a deck block. Another nice thing about using triscuit is you can span seams with these boxes and still have sufficient support.

We should probably move all this to a new thread as we have ventured far afield.

EDIT*** OK this is just a concept sketch. I just realized that as drawn these are not exactly what I use. The real blocks give me 5.75, 7.75 and 11.75" this allows for adding a .25" MDF or Maso top or just carpet. ***
 

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Well, if we are going to break a thread off of this one about platform construction, then I don't feel bad about adding another sidebar discussion.

The fasteners used. Staples? Nails? Screws? What are you using, and why? I'm especially interested to hear what screws Vans shop is using.
 
We use coarse drywall for sheet goods onto framing and nails for framing.

Connecting adjacent platforms is always via carriage bolts. My colleague has seen screws hardened and non-hardened shear. His most memorable encounter was when someone built a structure with two platforms connected with a crap-ton of deck screws. A cast member of average build fell onto the platform -- the dozen or so screws all sheared and the platform dropped.
 
This topic was revisited today when it came to a tee. The scenic designer and I were present for a fire dept walkthrough of the set. The deputy fire chief examined the set. He noted an elevated 8' platform and concerns for it. Then he elaborated that his understanding from the building inspector was that platforms elevated above a certain height were required to meet code, then requested we contact the building inspector for a review of our structures, with a follow-up meeting the night before opening night with both himself and the building inspector both present.

A phone call to the building inspector quickly went down an unexpected path when the inspector asked, "Are you applying for a permit for this?" We said no, as it's a temporary theatrical set. He told us he disagreed about our assessment of whether or not a permit is required. Since then, I have noted the passage earlier in this thread from IBC about theatrical scenery being specifically exempted from permit regulations.

This quickly shifted up the food chain when the scenic designer I spoke with the director and the arts center manager, who immediately called the building and grounds supervisor. B&G supervisor told us he agreed with us that permitting was not appropriate, and that permitting was not part of his agreement with the fire dept. The terms of that agreement were that the school district would give the fire dept a heads up when a set is on stage and schedule an inspection, and if they had concerns about structural elements, they could contact the building inspector for an unofficial, informal peer review.

We have a meeting with the building inspector tomorrow, but currently the understanding we share with the B&G supervisor is that the building inspector has no jurisdiction or mechanism of enforcement. His comments are purely advisory for the purposes of limiting potential safety hazards in an academic setting, and we can choose to ignore them or act upon them as we deem necessary. Ultimately, we need to feel comfortable that the set is safe, and the school district believes this to be the best way to do that. I will likely advise them after this that they'd be better off giving a couple hundred bucks to a technical director nearby and bring them in to provide a peer review from someone with a history in theatrical scenic construction. Bringing someone in whose experience is in building construction will lead to a large number of grievances that are irrelevant because they are comparing against non-applicable building codes.
 
. . . . Having the the assistant fire chief walk through is not unusual for us, though it doesn't happen frequently. Having the building inspector come in was a new one for us, but the assistant fire chief wouldn't have called the building inspector without a good reason.

After hearing of all the wood construction mentioned in this thread (mostly below this point in the thread), I am curious if the set materials were "constructed of non-combustible materials, limited combustible materials, or fire retardant treated wood." per NFPA 101 Article 13.4.5.11.3 ? Did the (Assistant) Fire Chief (Marshal?) even ask? It has been a hundred years since the Iroquois Theatre Fire, so you'd think the message might have been received, however, I still see little use of appropriate materials on the stages I visit.
 
After hearing of all the wood construction mentioned in this thread (mostly below this point in the thread), I am curious if the set materials were "constructed of non-combustible materials, limited combustible materials, or fire retardant treated wood." per NFPA 101 Article 13.4.5.11.3 ? Did the (Assistant) Fire Chief (Marshal?) even ask? It has been a hundred years since the Iroquois Theatre Fire, so you'd think the message might have been received, however, I still see little use of appropriate materials on the stages I visit.

I'm certainly not an expert, but non-treated wood is a common material in all scenic construction and if appropriately treated, is then code compliant. Backpainting using paint with a fire retardant is one of the methods, although (as far as I've been told) use of latex paint application (in NYC) is fine.
 
He asked if anything had been flame retarded. The scenic designer told him he had been via paint. Lots of raw wood on undersides and backsides of things though that he didn't comment on.

I talked to a local TD about this earlier today, who's also a volunteer EMT for some 30 years. He said so long as there are sprinklers and no likely ignition sources (live flame, sparks), his opinion is to not bother with flame retardant and backpainting.

It goes without saying that opinions and code requirements are not always synonymous.
 
I will likely advise them after this that they'd be better off giving a couple hundred bucks to a technical director nearby and bring them in to provide a peer review from someone with a history in theatrical scenic construction. Bringing someone in whose experience is in building construction will lead to a large number of grievances that are irrelevant because they are comparing against non-applicable building codes.

Couldn't agree with this more. The last school I worked at had the home construction teacher building their sets.... My biggest complaint was that he never showed up for strikes and he used three different types of screws (phillips, star, and square).

If you're looking for some peer review, though I am relatively certain you have more experience in the field than I do, I'm always looking to check out how other folks build there sets. Let me know.
 
My biggest complaint was that he never showed up for strikes and he used three different types of screws (phillips, star, and square).

Oh thats just cruel. And besides, everyone knows Square is where its at.
 
We have a meeting with the building inspector tomorrow, but currently the understanding we share with the B&G supervisor is that the building inspector has no jurisdiction or mechanism of enforcement.

I'm researching this because of several recent inquiries about the issue, but do not assume that because a building permit is not required that the building official does not have jurisdiction nor that the building codes do not apply. From the 2012 IBC:


105.2 Work exempt from permit.
Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:

Building:

8. Temporary motion picture, television and theater stage sets and scenery.

SECTION 108 TEMPORARY STRUCTURES AND USES

108.1 General.
The building official is authorized to issue a permit for temporary structures and temporary uses. Such permits shall be limited as to time of service, but shall not be permitted for more than 180 days. The building official is authorized to grant extensions for demonstrated cause.

108.2 Conformance.
Temporary structures and uses shall conform to the structural strength, fire safety, means of egress, accessibility, light, ventilation and sanitary requirements of this code as necessary to ensure public health, safety and general welfare.

108.3 Temporary power.
The building official is authorized to give permission to temporarily supply and use power in part of an electric installation before such installation has been fully completed and the final certificate of completion has been issued. The part covered by the temporary certificate shall comply with the requirements specified for temporary lighting, heat or power in NFPA 70.

108.4 Termination of approval.
The building official is authorized to terminate such permit for a temporary structure or use and to order the temporary structure or use to be discontinued.
 

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