Fire hose connections and hoses on stage

[BillConnerFASTC]

You state clearly the reasons for doing away with requirement, and basically what I presented in support of change - maybe - just maybe - with a slight more diplomacy. The immediate response to any change that lessens a requirement is that it seems to have worked well. Not easy.

Re training - good idea to do it before recharging.

You know, anyone can submit a code change proposal. Just go to IBC website and all the details, deadlines, forms, etc. are there. I just haven't found the time for this one (and many others on my list) . Its the IBC and IFC - check it out.

 

[Amy Jo Brown]

1) No
2) No
3) No

We have two fire hoses installed on stage and they have never been used. The only use they have gotten is to have the hose knocked out of its harness and lie in a pile on the stage until someone has the time and patience to put it back together. Putting those hoses back into its holster is my kryptonite - it takes forever and one small move and the whole thing falls right back out again.

 

[teqniqal]

We have two fire hoses installed on stage and they have never been used. The only use they have gotten is to have the hose knocked out of its harness and lie in a pile on the stage until someone has the time and patience to put it back together. Putting those hoses back into its holster is my kryptonite - it takes forever and one small move and the whole thing falls right back out again.

Approach your AHJ and request permission to have the hose rack (re)installed inside a standard hose rack enclosure. This will keep it from getting bumped and 'discombooberated'.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Or approach ahj and ask if he wants you to fight fires or get out; and ask if any of the fire service would ever use those hoses.

 

[darinlwebb]

1. No
2. Never used, never seen used, didn't know they were intended for occupant use, always assumed it was for the FD.
3. I only say 'no' because of my answer to the previous two. If I had training, I would probably say yes.

Is there risk in having a hose reel with nobody trained in it's use, or is it just a waste of money?

I'm in a less than 4 year old high school performing arts center, with hose reels just off downstage right and left. They are also in various places around the school. Perhaps Operations staff is trained on their use, but the TD and performing arts staff who will actually be anywhere nearby in the event of a fire sure are not.

 

[MNicolai]

Is there risk in having a hose reel with nobody trained in it's use, or is it just a waste of money?

The primary risk is that until everyone has exited the building, the firefighters have a rescue operation on their hands instead of a firefighting operation. Obviously they're going to do a sweep of the space regardless, but if they know people (you) are inside they have to concentrate their efforts on that first.

There's something to be said for buying time for others to exit, but between requirements for sprinklers and proscenium wall protection, rooms above a certain size should already have mechanisms in place for the safe timely egress of patrons and performers. In my estimation, smaller rooms that are excepted from having sprinklers are possibly the highest hazard risk.

Also should note that either by hose or by sprinkler, once curtains start taking on water the stage can become a dangerous area quickly. The weight of the water will cause the curtains to become much heavier. Pipe battens start bending, counterweight sets start slipping through the rope locks, a set with 9 lift lines might concentrate all of the load on 2 lift lines because the pipe batten deflects and releases the load from the other lines. If you have floor boxes or power cables on the ground, you also have some degree of an electrocution risk.

Philosophy I have is that once you reach the point that you need more than a fire extinguisher or 2 to put out a fire, it's time to exit.

 

[darinlwebb]

once curtains start taking on water the stage can become a dangerous area quickly

I had not considered this, excellent point.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Do keep in mind that it is very rare for more than one sprinkler to flow, so it's not like the movies where they all go off at once ( I detest that cinema representation as it makes people fear sprinklers). It's not as if suddenly the weight on curtain sets will triple, so don't get too freaked out.

I worked on this once - a really full and very long and tall - several hundred feet by fifty feet high - Venetian contour curtain. I wanted to be sure the curtain soaked would not pull the building or at least the curtain support down. It was not that heavy - maybe double IIRC - and in the cotton velour era. I wonder if synthetic holds as much water.

 

[darinlwebb]

So what I'm hearing is that we need to take our soft goods on a field trip to the swimming pool and get some real data.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

So what I'm hearing is that we need to take our soft goods on a field trip to the swimming pool and get some real data.

When I researched this in the 1980s, I asked Chris Kaiser at Syracuse Scenery and Stage Lighting, so she said she took a bath with a piece and weighed it before and after. Where's your scale - bath or pool?

 

[Ken Summerall Jr]

1. Nope
2. I saw Bruce Willis use one.
3. We have the racks but the hoses are long gone. I would rather have extinguishers, we already have 16 in our facility. (1000 seats)