Fixture profiles

[Beau light]

Is it possible to use one brand name fixture profile for another brand fixture if they are the same type fixture? Same number of channels, all do the same thing, etc...
I'm using a Pilot3000 console. The extension for profiles is .fxr. I can't find some of the brand lights I'm using but can find similar high end brands in their library.
Thanks for your advice!

 

[Amiers]

Short answer yes.


Long answer a profile is just a file to send data to the fixture. So if everything is correct but the name then yes it will work. Things to look out for would be 8 vs 16 bit for your F P/T additions. Obviously the name will be wrong but meh it's just a name.

 

[Beau light]

Thought that was probably the case. I was just worried that some brand manufacturers might put in a code that would render like fixtures inoperable. (I'm probably watching too many movies!)
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it!

 

[Amiers]

That would be funny if they did. You could have a whole dept of CSR set aside to handing out button combination codes to unlock a fixture based on the time of day after paying a fee for using a bad fixture profile.

Called Fixture Reactivation Internal Effects Dept. Fried Dept.

 

[Beau light]

Lol! Sort of goes along with the whole "net neutrality" idea.
Thanks again for your wisdom and for the laugh!

 

[JChenault]

Longer answer. Probably. But not always. (IMHO)

The data modeler in me believes that some high end consoles put additional info in their profiles that is more than just what DNA address drives what function

For example. A pan tilt may have information about how many degrees of motion are available. An LED color unit may have information as to the gamut of color ( IE what is the frequency of that blur LED)

I'm not familiar with the Pilot3000. Using a profile with the same DMX mapping should work fine for your purposes.

 

[Chris Pflieger]

Thought that was probably the case. I was just worried that some brand manufacturers might put in a code that would render like fixtures inoperable. (I'm probably watching too many movies!)
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it!

Fortunately with DMX-512, we're a long way from that being reality. The profile does not actually get sent to the fixture.

Basically, a fixture profile is a set of instructions for the console to get the fixture to do what you want. For instance, if you want Middle Lavender at 55%, send "these" particular DMX-512 codes.

Since this isn't for the same fixture, the most likely worst case will be colors that are a little off.

 

[Amiers]

Longer answer. Probably. But not always. (IMHO)

The data modeler in me believes that some high end consoles put additional info in their profiles that is more than just what DNA address drives what function

For example. A pan tilt may have information about how many degrees of motion are available. An LED color unit may have information as to the gamut of color ( IE what is the frequency of that blur LED)

I'm not familiar with the Pilot3000. Using a profile with the same DMX mapping should work fine for your purposes.

The fixtures take care of all that. Limit switches, and programming within the fixture to stop an LED from going outside its working range.

They are attached to all sorts of consoles so they must function around each controller from the shitty ones to the 100k ones.

 

[Ford]

Kind-of. Just because your DMX profile has the same parameters in the same positions, it doesn't mean that the profiles are the same.
There are a lot of possible differences... For instance, some manufacturers invert the Iris channel (so, 1 is wide open, and the iris tightens as you raise the channel). Further, at some point (usually 50%, but not always...) you may get iris pulses (pulsing in, or out first).
You can have similar variances in Color Wheels, and especially on Control (or macro) channels.
Some consoles give a default value to a parameter (like 50/50 pan/tilt) which may affect how these fixtures perform.

If you are not relying on effects built by the console, and you are not mixing fixture types with the same profile, you should be ok... but even then, you may see issues with default values, and parameters not reacting as you expect them to.

 

[Rob]

This is a topic dear to my heart. About a dozen years ago we started building a 'generic fixture model' or an 'abstracted fixture model' to deal with the thousands of versions of fixture f/w built in dozens of cities throughout the world. We first implemented it on the ET Marquee, then the Strand Palette series and now used in Pathway's Cognito and Choreo platforms. For those interested, this document describes it and its benefits in detail.

 

[JChenault]

The fixtures take care of all that. Limit switches, and programming within the fixture to stop an LED from going outside its working range.

I think you're missing my point. It's not going outside of the fixtures range ( which is a bunch of DMX values 0 to 255 ) but instead what values the console should output in response to user actions.

Consider a pan/tilt control using a mouse. When you move the mouse the console gets told the mouse has moved some number of pixels. If the mouse moves 5 pixels, what is the appropriate change in DMX value to send to the fixture?

If you know the range of motion of the fixture, you can compute what the appropriate new DMX value should be so all of your moving lights respond similarly to the control. That's why you want to have that kind of info in a profile.

Similar issue ( but much more complex ) with color control. I want R80 to look the same on various manufacturers. I can't do that accurately without a lot of information.


Cross posted with prior two posts. They said it better than I did

 

[Rob]

Similar issue ( but much more complex ) with color control. I want R80 to look the same on various manufacturers.

It is tricky and almost impossible without the support of the fixture manufacturers. ANSI E1.54 is an attempt to standardize this.

PLASA Standard for Color Communication in Entertainment Lighting

E1.54 specifies a standardized color space and defines the locations of the RGB primaries and the White Point for the purpose of facilitating the communications between lighting controllers and color-changing luminaires. It offers a standardized way of specifying color. The method is generic and is neither manufacturer-specific nor color technology-specific.​

 

[Amiers]

I think you're missing my point. It's not going outside of the fixtures range ( which is a bunch of DMX values 0 to 255 ) but instead what values the console should output in response to user actions.

Consider a pan/tilt control using a mouse. When you move the mouse the console gets told the mouse has moved some number of pixels. If the mouse moves 5 pixels, what is the appropriate change in DMX value to send to the fixture?

If you know the range of motion of the fixture, you can compute what the appropriate new DMX value should be so all of your moving lights respond similarly to the control. That's why you want to have that kind of info in a profile.

Similar issue ( but much more complex ) with color control. I want R80 to look the same on various manufacturers. I can't do that accurately without a lot of information.


Cross posted with prior two posts. They said it better than I did

I get your point and agree it won't be ideal settings but it will still work until a proper profile gets made.

 

[Beau light]

Turns out, on the Pilot 3000 you can go into a fixture profile and change all the attributes to what you need then save it as a new profile. After extensive reading of the manual, I feel much better. I may even start a library online for others who use this console.
Thanks for all your input!

 

[MNicolai]

Longest answer: Sure, but depending on which console you're driving it may have implications. ETC, for example, uses calibrated fixture data provided by Carallon. It doesn't mean much for spinning encoder wheels, but if you use a different fixture's profile and go into the color picker and select R26, you may end up with a color that definitely looks in the ballpark of red but most certainly isn't R26.

Other things that may get a little screwy could be gobo wheel positions, strobe parameters, and lamp on/off settings. Another fixture's profile may get the DMX parameter assignments correct but have completely different ranges for triggering certain functions.