Fixture Selection

[Les]

Shakespeares do seem to be excellent lights, but they are indeed very bulky. The optics, features, as well as the housing do seem to be in good shape, but that's what I would expect from Altman. ETC Source Fours are, in my book, the most practical choice out there because of the rugged construction, small size, and high output. The optics, however seem to produce a little more halation than either the Shakespeares, or the SL's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lower color temp of the SL's may actually reduce halation in the beam.
I was just working with a fleet of SL's today, changing out lens barrels from 36 degree to 26 degree. This, by the way, is an extreme pain in the you know what. The SL's focus knob incorporates a spring and a washer, and it seemed like either one or the other was always popping out as I was trying to screw it in. I was really compelled to give the light a firm 'tap' with the crescent wrench, but that's not very nice... Especially if the lights don't belong to you. I also found that the screw would spin inside the knob and actually loosen so as to prevent me from seating it correctly. Another problem is with the knob which you loosten to rotate the unit 360 degrees. I love the fact that the whole unit rotates a full 360, but this great feature doesn't work on half the instruments. The knobs will sometimes not tighten, which meens the fixture will rotate freely, thus making it vulnerable to being knocked out of "focus". The SL's best uses are the "set it and forget it" type. Somewhere you can rig, lamp, and focus the light, and never really have to mess with it after that. SL's really aren't sturdy enough to take the everyday abuse of touring, and constantly changing lighting hangs.

Les C. Deal
Denton High School
LD/TD/ME

 

[Inaki2]

Sorry for my ignorance on terms, but what is halation?

 

[Nephilim]

If I recall correctly, it's the slight blue ringing effect on the beam; it's especially noticable when you have a breakup pattern with small holes.

 

[Inaki2]

Ahh yes, I know that as acromatic distortion. Thats actually a distrtion because lenses are designed fro as arge a number of wavelengths as possible (wavelengthvaries in speed), but some wavelenghts get slowed down at the lens and thus become separated from the white spectrum. Tat is why high quelity optic ave a larger number of lenses, the correct the speed for those wavelengths.

 

[Les]

wolf---
I have worked with both Source Fours and SL's, and the ETC's have my vote. Mostly because of the time-tested design and the rigidity of the design. I love the durable all-diecast steel housing of the S-IV. This does cost you in the weight department, but there is just no way around it; a sturdy, well-made light is going to be a little on the heavy side.
Don't get me wrong, I have also worked with SL Variable focus ellipsoidals and I have no complaints. The only thing I would watch out for on the SL's are the lampholders... I gurantee you, they are alot more of a pain that the ETS's are! If you really can't decide, I would just compromise. Maybe go with a "hybrid" of about 50 zooms and 25 fixed-focus units. Maybe 10 19degree, 10 36degree, and 5 50degree. It is to my experience that ETC's and SL's work well together. I would use the zooms for your considerably long throws, such as balcony or side/alcove lighting, and the fixed-focus family on your catwalk, if this applies to your space. If it was me, I would go w/ both because I can never make up my mind. Hope this helps!
-Les

 

[Inaki2]

Yup, I totally agree with you, both with the brand part and the fixture type part. Good advice there mate!

 

[SteveB]

To weigh in...

I have 20 Shakespeare 15/35 zooms, 48 Shake 30's and 40's, a ton of 360Q's, another theater with S4's and S4 junior zooms as well as a black box full of S4 junior zooms. Oh, and a bunch of 20 year old Colortran 6" 15/35 zooms that are the best zoom I've ever used (tough to clean the lenses though).

1) I've had it with crappy Altman quality control and design issues. The Shakespeares - both types, have a lamp cap that seemingly works it's way way loose with each and every cool/heat cycle. You then - naturaly grab the rear "handle" to focus and blow the FLK- which are too sensitive to begin with. The Shake zooms have a 3rd little lense tucked deep inside in the gate that is impossible to clean without taking apart the front and rear halves of the fixtures. Thus it doesn't get cleaned.

2) Not that happy with the S4 Junior Zooms either. No access to the lenses to clean. When shuttered and zoomed in tight, the heat reflected off the gate overheats the lamp.

3) The S4 big zoom, at least in the 15/30 unit has a very unusual design to get it balanced.

Stick to a basic S4, though the 25/50 Zoom is a nice unit, though heavy. Good light output at 750 as well.

- To reply to other posts, the original ellipsoidal spotlight was created by Kliegl, not Century.

- The 750 watt rating of the Shakespeare is for an EHG type lamp, that has inferior light output as compared to the FLK series. I've yet to see a FLK type lamp at 750 watts, as compared to the S4

SB

 

[Les]

Who knows where I can get 360Q's for either free or real cheap?
I will accept any age or era as long as they are of the axial type. I
need to expand my inventory. I can use the ones that don't work for parts.
-Les

 

[ship]

“and blow the FLK- which are too sensitive to begin with” -Steve B
The FLK is the HX-600 series. It’s been replaced by the HX-602 lamp for more ruggedness in a 120v lamp, or the HX-604 series for the same 115v rating but a more rugged and compact filament. This is now the ANSI GLC series of lamp. Both the HX-602 commonly also called the GLC are the improved FLK/HX-600 lamps. Don’t see why anyone would be using such lamps anymore myself if it is not for cheap cost because they are not rugged. The GLC while a little less intense, has a more compact filament and is much more rugged. The even better alternative to this is the Osram HPR lamp. Basically a FLK, but with a mini reflector hanging off the support wires to complete the reflector ellipse in adding 15 to 20% more intensity to your beam and in losing that Altman dark spot in the center. It’s also going to be better with patterns in a sharper pattern.

Though I do note and agree with the lamp caps magically coming loose in general. I forgot that such things happen but it’s certainly a factor. Altman non-standard - standard parts, yea there is some adjustment and quality control problems frequently but overall all companies have similar problems. Granted, Altman’s problems with stuff lining up are more common than with Strand or ETC. On the S-4 Junior, just wait until you have a lamp break... there is a mess, plus you have that little screw to access within the barrel. The “Leko” name comes from Century, are you saying that Kliegl created the slang name of Ellipsoidal Reflector Spotlight instead, or that they just invented the fixture? That’s an important detail with the history of the term.


“I've yet to see a FLK type lamp at 750 watts, as compared to the S4 “ - Steve B
There are three lamps of 750w/115v in the FLK/HX-600 series. They are about a year old on the market. First and most bright is a OEM lamp by Philips designed by High End for the Color Command. IT’s the #13420-5 and called either the Philips #6981 or #6982P lamp as a description. Good lamp. Color temperature in my test was much more than that of a S-4 HPL 750/115wC lamp. The output seemingly was either the same or more also. Unfortunately I did not have the same size of lens in the fixtures so while the S-4's beam had more output, it was also half the dia. This lamp while not officially rated for the fixture - much like a FEL in a 360Q, is the same basic lamp as those to follow. Only more in output.

GE/Thorn came out with the HX-754/755 series of HX-600 type lamp to match demand for it. These lamps are made to the quality of the GLC series in filament and ruggedness - at least I believe so, but otherwise have the same benefits of lower voltage and more compact filament that the HX-600 lamps have. Only they are now at 750w. First is the high output HX-754 which is now the GLD ANSI lamp. Next is the HX=755 or GLE which is the long life version of it.

For lamps I recommend the Osram 575w HPR 575/115 for high output, or Philips GLA for long life. Than the Color Command lamp for 750w high output, or the GLE for long life. Anyway that’s my choices in Altman type lamps. I have tried the GLA, HPR and #6982P verses HPL and FLK lamps. Very impressive and worth the extra money of them being new. I agree that the EHG is about similar in output to a FLK, and it’s more rugged and long lived. Time to try the improved 575w or 750w versions of the FLK because they do exist. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge the HPL lamp will not be getting any reflectors, and any further improvements to it beyond the last known to be recalled ceramic lamp base due to a problem I find out about on Thursday when my vendor Rep pays me what she think is a sales boosting call. Improvements to the HPL, unless ETC comes up with them, will follow the FLK series of lamp development. That’s true dichroic UV filters on the glass next, which they are working on. Than probably liquid filled lamps such as you can find on some projector Xenon lamps. At this point you can boost the color temperature and do any number of other things to the lamp in a stable atmosphere.

The FLK was not cheap when it came out. Now it’s at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately none of the above lamps are cheap yet so you will have to balance improved output with lamp cost. It will take a while for the lamps to either become popular or be discontinued as a possibility for the HPR if Osram does not have the patience to live with limited sales marketed for older style fixtures. It will work on the Shakespeare or SL but might not be more efficient. I would give the above lamps a shot, they might be useful or at least useful to introduce as specials where needed.


Unfortunately I only have S-4 fixtures to work with and given a large volume their own various problems might seem larger than they are in proportion to other fixtures. Overall, it's not a bad fixture as a base Leko.

 

[JasonC77]

I agree with the above poster in choosing a hybrid grouping of instruments, but disagree in making the zooms your primary type. A little photometrics work of your space should show you what beam spread of the S4's would probably be the most common... IE: will give you approximately 8' spread on a 45-degree shot. I would go with a heavy load of them and then spread out with the other beam spreads, again looking to the most useful types...IE: a 50-degree barrel aint really gonna do you a hill of beans if your shortest shot is 20 or 30 feet. as for worrying about a full set of barrels for each S4 fixture? dont even bother. they arent S4 Pars... the likelyhood that a majority of the extra barrels will still be in their original packaging 5 years down the road is pretty high. Grab a few extra barrels so you dont get caught with your pants down, but as mentioned above, its too easy to rent them. As for the zooms, if you have the cash, get a few. I imagine they would be good flex units, and their zoom capability should make them useful as specials.

As for the Selicons mentioned, they are pretty darn cool... had the chance to work with a few. But if you are looking for reducing the weight of an electric, run like hell... these suckers are *heavy*. One nice feature is that on the newest of the selicons, they are heatsinked enough that you can put a piece of transparency printed on a computer printer in the pattern slot and use it as a poor mans projector. The only caveat is that sometimes (read when out of bench focus) large areas of black can cause melting problems, but you should be able to get around this.