Control/Dimming Flicker while slider is moving and no light otherwise

[JennD]

Hi, all. New to this forum, and looking for a quick clue to move forward with. I completely understand that actual detailed troubleshooting won't be possible without more info, but I've done a bunch of unsuccessful searching and I'm a bit desperate. I'm hoping someone can say "oh, yeah, that's a totally common newbie error; your frobbler is on backwards".

This is a completely incandescent system, so no LED weirdness. Does anyone know off the top of their head what would cause the whole lighting rig to (1) stay dark regardless of where the (master) slider is sitting, (2) flicker on and off while the slider is being moved, but (3) go back to total darkness as soon as the slider stops moving? It's like the dimmers are coming on only at the instant they're receiving a control signal, and are off the rest of the time.

I'm on an Enttec controller (Pro Mk2), using the built-in management and testing app. I'm on Windows 10, and my DMX drivers and firmware are up to date. Instruments will go up to full and stay there just fine if I punch their physical button on the dimmer pack.

Thanks in advance if you recognize this situation and can give me a clue how to troubleshoot further. I'm usually a stage manager, and not primarily a lighting person, so I'm the one-eyed man in the country of the blind with regard to this production. (Which opens in three days, naturally.)

 

[JChenault]

JennD
I’m confused. The entry product is typically used in a PC based application. Your reference to Win 10 reinforces this. But there is no master slider on any PC based system that I am aware of. What program are you using? Do you have an auxiliary control surface with sliders? If so what manufacturer model?

 

[JennD]

In software. There's a basic set of sliders, including a master, in the management tool's interface, so you can check to see if your connection is working end-to-end. Which, alas, it isn't. :} Here's a screenshot of an older version, thanks to a message board in Germany; the master isn't shown, but it's a horizontal slider across the top of the specific channel ones. Sorry I can't update the screenshot, not having the rig set up at the moment.

 

[Amiers]

You are running a show with that??

You need to get real lighting software or a controller to run the rig. With only 3 days out I would look to renting. Being that you are in Texas you shouldn’t have a problem finding someone to rent from.

 

[JennD]

You are running a show with that?? // You need to get real lighting software or a controller to run the rig. With only 3 days out I would look to renting. Being that you are in Texas you shouldn’t have a problem finding someone to rent from.

My question doesn't mean other people aren't pursuing backup plans, including borrowing boards from other organizations. Of course I know how to rent equipment, but rental isn't in the budget of every theater I work with. This thread is about me trying to figure out what's going on technically. If it's a well-known failure mode, I would like to know about it for the future as well. If it's bizarre and nobody's ever seen anything like it, that's good information too. I'm just asking whether this symptom sounds familiar to anybody. Thanks!

 

[icewolf08]

Let me say up front, I am not familiar with the Enttec software you are using, but in general:
1) A master fader controls the levels of other faders. As such, you wouldn't see anything come up just moving a master. You need your channel faders to be at a level above 0.
2) You never mentioned what dimmers you are using. There could be setup that needs to happen with them or the software to make them happy.
3) There is a lot of free and open-source lighting control software that will work with Enttec DMX devices, I would highly suggest using one.

 

[JennD]

Let me say up front, I am not familiar with the Enttec software you are using, but in general:
1) A master fader controls the levels of other faders. As such, you wouldn't see anything come up just moving a master. You need your channel faders to be at a level above 0.
2) You never mentioned what dimmers you are using. There could be setup that needs to happen with them or the software to make them happy.
3) There is a lot of free and open-source lighting control software that will work with Enttec DMX devices, I would highly suggest using one.

The screenshot, as I said, isn't a live one; yes, the channels themselves are also up, or I wouldn't expect the master to do anything. Witness the fact that I am, in fact, getting something, albeit intermittently, when moving controls.

I'm now wishing I had provided less information. I know I'm not using full control software; and I'm only using the Enttec hardware to try to diagnose the system in the absence of another functioning controller, so I'm certainly not asking for specifics about it or its interface. My question is, has anyone ever seen a DMX control issue that can cause stuttering and flickering while the control signal is being sent, and no response otherwise?

Ideally, someone would say "yes, that happens when your X is incompatible with your Y". Or, if I got a string of answers like "Nope" "Uh-uh" "Not me" "Weird", then that would also tell me something. I'm hoping for some education here, or troubleshooting steps to try, or descriptions of general possibilities. I appreciate people taking the time to answer, but telling me to use a different system doesn't address my general-knowledge question about this symptom.

 

[Amiers]

It’s hard to troubleshoot when the control software is questionable itself.

You said the dimmers work manually so test the Entec box on a singular dimmer with a known dmx cable that’s connecting them.

No offense but you are trying to start a car with a potatoe. Budget or no budget take the people up to the booth you are working for and explain that you need atleast some sort of real control. Even a scene setter would help with a bench test.

 

[icewolf08]

The screenshot, as I said, isn't a live one; yes, the channels themselves are also up, or I wouldn't expect the master to do anything. Witness the fact that I am, in fact, getting something, albeit intermittently, when moving controls.

I'm now wishing I had provided less information. I know I'm not using full control software; and I'm only using the Enttec hardware to try to diagnose the system in the absence of another functioning controller, so I'm certainly not asking for specifics about it or its interface. My question is, has anyone ever seen a DMX control issue that can cause stuttering and flickering while the control signal is being sent, and no response otherwise?

Ideally, someone would say "yes, that happens when your X is incompatible with your Y". Or, if I got a string of answers like "Nope" "Uh-uh" "Not me" "Weird", then that would also tell me something. I'm hoping for some education here, or troubleshooting steps to try, or descriptions of general possibilities. I appreciate people taking the time to answer, but telling me to use a different system doesn't address my general-knowledge question about this symptom.

To answer your bolded question, yes, I have seen plenty of bizarre DMX issues that cause flickering. However, you are asking for help troubleshooting but not giving us all the information. The more information you can provide, including photos of setup, the easier it will be to actually help.

What type of dimmer are you using?
How is the enttec box connected to the system? Are you running DMX cables directly to the dimmers or through existing building wiring?
Are there any DMX splitters/optos in the line?
How long is the cable run? Is it real DMX cable? Are you using any adapters?
Do you have a DMX tester you can plug into the output of the Enttec box to make sure it is outputting clean DMX?
Can you adjust the timing of the DMX signal in the software? Does that make a difference?
Does the software support RDM? If so, try turn RDM off.
Is your DMX run terminated?
Are there any other controllers in the system like an architectural controller?

 

[JD]

So, you click on a slider with a mouse and drag it up and down and as you do this the lights flicker but go out when you stop moving it?
If so, I suspect there is a problem between the software and the windows driver. Step one: If you have an indicator on your dimmers for the presence of DMX, see that you are always receiving DMX. Could be the driver ceases output when there is no change.
If you are getting DMX all the time, then I still suspect the problem is between Win 10, the software, and the device driver.

EDIT: I should add, we are talking about a dedicated computer not connected to the internet and not running anti-virus or firewall software right? Although not directly related (except for the av software), nothing can wreck a show faster than a mid-show disk scan or update!

 

[Jeff Lelko]

Hi Jenn,

Just to state the obvious (or make the suggestion if you're unfamiliar), why not simply download M-PC or MagicQ PC? They are legit software consoles that are both free and should work with your interface*. I had nothing but trouble with Windows 10 back when I used it and hence jumped ship to a 100% MacOS inventory. Software/Hardware symptoms such as what you describe are what my experience with Windows 10 was generally like.


* Disclaimer - to the best of my knowledge. I only own an original Enttec DMX-USB Pro and thus can't test my suggestion.

 

[dbaxter]

I've recently had a couple users of my lighting software complain of flickering with the latest Win 10 updates. The problem was using a virtual serial driver to the Enttec device. The problem was cleared by switching to a D2XX driver. It's a much better, faster USB interface than a virtual serial port. The FTDI site has the latest versions.
Should you still be looking for a professional lighting package that has a menu selection for the MK2 Pro and D2XX interface, our software has them.

 

[JennD]

Thanks; those are some good avenues to check out. Remember that this isn't a system I'm actually planning to use. This was a one-shot one-hour interaction with a system that is not mine and that I'm not going to be running myself, so setting up full control software on a new laptop on the spur of the moment just wasn't an option. And I know that flickering in general is a very common symptom of all sorts of random things, which is why I was specific about it happening only during the actual sending of control signals. My takeaway here is that no, there isn't a known cause for that specific situation, as opposed to other types of flickering. And in the meantime, yes, they've borrowed a working board and the show goes on.

 

[Amiers]

Does the flickering happen for them?

Why are they using an entec in the middle of a console path. If not always on a console what do they normally use?

Why would you test a system with something that isn’t what is used in the space on a regular basis?

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

Hi, all. New to this forum, and looking for a quick clue to move forward with. I completely understand that actual detailed troubleshooting won't be possible without more info, but I've done a bunch of unsuccessful searching and I'm a bit desperate. I'm hoping someone can say "oh, yeah, that's a totally common newbie error; your frobbler is on backwards".

This is a completely incandescent system, so no LED weirdness. Does anyone know off the top of their head what would cause the whole lighting rig to (1) stay dark regardless of where the (master) slider is sitting, (2) flicker on and off while the slider is being moved, but (3) go back to total darkness as soon as the slider stops moving? It's like the dimmers are coming on only at the instant they're receiving a control signal, and are off the rest of the time.

I'm on an Enttec controller (Pro Mk2), using the built-in management and testing app. I'm on Windows 10, and my DMX drivers and firmware are up to date. Instruments will go up to full and stay there just fine if I punch their physical button on the dimmer pack.

Thanks in advance if you recognize this situation and can give me a clue how to troubleshoot further. I'm usually a stage manager, and not primarily a lighting person, so I'm the one-eyed man in the country of the blind with regard to this production. (Which opens in three days, naturally.)

I might be lat off the block here, but I see you're using Enttec software so presumably the Enttec Pro DMX dongle? Anyway. The 1st thing I would do would be to download another suite. I use QLCPLus. It's free and once you've connected the dangle you can go to the simple desk and mover their sliders. Otherwise I would think the USB/DMX dongle is/was the problem.

 

[JD]

once you've connected the dangle

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