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Gaff needs a projector now

Discussion in 'Multimedia, Projection, and Show Control' started by gafftaper, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    I am NOT a video guy. I've got a video guy on campus but he's more of a filming and editing guy I'm not sure how much of a hardware guru he is. So I would like to present him with some ideas.

    I finally found the key to the projection screen and lowered it to learn what size it is today (Yet another thing I was left in the dark on). So now I need a projector. Black Box theater, throw is about 37', screen is 14' wide by 8' high. I've got a budget of around $10k... I can probably go more if it's REALLY cool, no ambient light issues. I've got unistrut hanging under the catwalks to mount the projector. I've got BNC and ethernet all over the theater. We would like the projector to be able to project lecture notes with the houselights up as well as do film festivals with the lights out. We would like a rental presenter to be able to bring their laptop in and easily run their presentations on the screen... I don't know what kind of gear I need to do that.

    I know that Cristy and Barco are probably the best in the business but that's about it. My video guy suggested a Panasonic PT-DW5000UL when we first set budgets about 2 years ago... it's probably out of date by now.

    I want good quality. Reliable, easy on the long term lamp replacement budget if possible, It would be nice to have a really high def system with a Blue Ray/HD DVD player for film festival stuff.

    Help Me. Thanks!
     
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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  3. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Well Derek, the list price is $85,000... I think it's out of my price range a bit.

    I did have someone tell me that the recommend a minimum of 30 lumens per square foot of screen... which works out to a minimum of 3,360 lumens. So I'm thinking something in the 4,000-5,000 lumen range is about right. (14,000 lumens is probably overkill.) I'll wait to see what kwotipka suggests.
     
  4. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that you should get a projector that's a bit higher powered than that, or at least has the option to be. So I'm gonna say a Christie DS+650 would fit your space pretty well. It's 6500 lumens with dual lamps, and accepts a large variety of input sources. But I'm not a true vidiot, I think that kwotipka will have a bit more to say here.
     
  5. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Few things with buying a projector. First, you will find that the lens will cost almost as much as the projector itself. Might have changed since I last bought one, might not, been a few years since I was involved in a purchase of one. Second, do you plan on using it for shows at any point? Here are two shots of a 10K LCD Panasonic from about 20' till the cyc with a 1.2 lens:

    First is stage wash at 75% and cyc lights at about 66%. Stage is all S4s lamped at 750w and cyc lights are 4 four cell Altman Ecno Cycs lamped 1000w.
    [​IMG]

    Same show, stage at 75% and cyc lights off.
    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the really bad shots, taken off of VLC player and the crappy dvd I have of the show :(. Point is, we were using a 10k and orginally were suppose to get a 7k. We found ourselves wishing for a brighter projector at times. Just food for thought.

    Also, Christie and Barco are the top brands. Panasonic and Sanyo aren't bad, and Epson only makes up to a 5.5K if I remember correctly. After that, the brands get cheap. Something else, are you looking into LCD or DLP. DLP has a much better image quality but will cost more. For example, I can rent a 7K DLP for the same price as a 10K LCD. You should look into HD as well, since that is the way everything is headed, and if you want to future proof it, that would be your best bet.

    I am by no means a video expert, but I deal with it more and more it seems. These are just things I hear from video guys that I work with and have been doing corporate AV for years and years, and my experiences.
     
  6. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    I am a big fan of Eiki projectors, they are very well made and affordable. The barcos do have DMX capability on some of them, which is a nice added feature. Be aware though, as stated before the lenses can cost just about as much as the projector, especially for a long throw. 4000-5000 lumens should do you well.
     
  7. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    I also am not up on all my video stuff, but I would say that you want to make sure that whatever projector you get supports HD resolutions and possibly higher. I suppose it should also have HD inputs (DVI, HDMI, component...) By the end of this year I bet we will see an end to the HD format war, and you will probably want the ability to display HD content.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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  9. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    I thought that Christies and Barcos had built in true dowsers? At least some of them do, I think.
     
  10. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Couple more things since everyone is talking about HD. Be aware that most HD signals will not go down HD cable very far, 50', 100' max is pushing it. I think I read somewhere that HDMI is only good for about 20' or so, DVI about 50'. You will need a signal booster to get full 1080 or even 720 over long lengths of cable. It also must be a digital cable to pass HD signal, meaning CAT 5 or 6, DVI, DVI-D, HDMI, component, or fiber optic. You could just turn the signal around to fiber optic and back again at the projector, not needing a DA at all then, but fiber optic cable is very expensive.
     
  11. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Component is not a digital signal. It can carry full 1080p, and cable runs can be significantly longer than DVI and HDMI. For an HD source like a Blu-ray player component would be fine.

    Having a signal booster in line with the DVI/HDMI line is not a bad idea.

    Gaff, do you have dry conduit run from say the booth to the deck so that you can pull input cables for the projector to the deck for presenters and such? I assume that any DVD/Blu-Ray players and such would be located in the booth, so that is not an issue, but you will want an easy access location for profs and presenters to plug in.

    Another thing to think of: will there always be one of your techs at any events that require the system? If not, you probably want to have some kind of universal control system like a Crestron. This will allow non-tech people to easily and quickly access the features of the system without poking around your booth.
     
  12. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    There is digital component cable. It is harder to find, but it does exist. Also, analog component is not capable of 1080p on some devices. You would also have a lose of quality with an analog component cable. Reason being is that more and more devices are going digital and not analog any more. When you translate digital to analog back to digital again, you lose something. How much this will effect your image, it varies. Sometimes you will be fine, sometimes you will notice issues, like blurs, sync issues, and/or artifacts. Over a distance however, I would feel much safer with a digital cable that I know will not have any issues.

    There is something else to think about analog verses digital cable. In a few years, lovely DRM will step in and say, "Anything not fully digital gets sub HD only." Meaning, no 1080i or p for anything that isn't fully digital in your track, just 720p if I remember correctly. It must be digital playback, digital cable, and digital receiver. It is for this reason that I said digital.

    So, digital component would be a better bet for longevity and quality. However, you would still need a DA over distance because instead of a series of varying voltages, aka analog, you have a bit stream, aka digital, which loses quality over distance.
     
  13. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Dumb question time... So does this mean I can use cat5 to carry a signal from the floor to the projector with the right setup ? Cause I've got something like 80 ethernet ports in space. That would be perfect for the user coming in and wants to hook up their laptop to the projector.

    Let me guess, is there a $5000 converter box needed to do it?
     
  14. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Dumb question about lumen output.

    I would love to have something that can do scenic projection in a show, lecture notes with the houselights at 1/2 and show a moving in the dark with no ambient light. However it sounds like that's three different projectors with different lumen outputs. Is there any sort of dimmer option that could get me something bright enough to do scenic work but able to dim down so it doesn't blind the audience on movie night.

    Let me guess... it'll cost another $5k?
     
  15. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Believe it or not, there is a way to do it. I would have to ask a friend of mine who is an installer the specifics, but I am pretty sure there is no expensive converter box involved. When I speak with him on Monday, I'll be sure to let you know.

    Your second question, You can block the hot spot of your projector and it would still do an image with less intensity. As far as an actually dimmer, not to my knowledge. Something to look into thought is lamps that work at different voltages, like in the Mac 700, 700w or 400w, or the VL3500 Wash, 1200w or 1500w. Wouldn't be surprised if they have something like that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2008
  16. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Neutral density.... nearly all projectors have a brightness setting just like any other display. Color wise, it might not be perfect at a lower brightness but that setting is there.
     
  17. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Hey that's actually sort of in my price range... without the lens.
     
  18. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    I made some comments on the other thread, but some addition points
    The Christie mentioned is NOT a true HD projector, it supports 1080p BUT it is not true wide screen (1920) and widescreen is the way forward
    It is true that you can run componant HD BUT more and more of the players and the studios are preventing you from running full HD resolution over componant (reason is that it is pretty easy to take HD componant and capture it so the ability to make high quality copies which makes the studios nervous is a factor.
    So the way forward is 1920x1080p and HDMI Anything else is potentially going to be obsolete pretty quick

    SO I would suggest something cheap for day to day use, and then rent for high end use for a while
    Sharyn
     
  19. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I suppose it's good I just use the things, I don't pay for them. My venue just bought four, along with new 21'x16' RP screens and 12" truss.
     
  20. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    If you find anything in the trash would you mind sending it my way?
     

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