Ganging mics

LPdan

Well-Known Member
I’m doing some upgrades to a school sound system, and found that they have hanging mics installed, with 2 groups wired in parallel. The splices were made in the ceiling, so it’s not as simple as separating them in the rack. Their xlr floor jacks were also all wired in parallel, but each line was brought into the rack, so easy to separate.
I’m planning to recommend the hanging mics get reworked. I haven’t tested them as-is yet, but what specific issues will this cause? I know mics should not be wired like this, but I want to give them a clear reason why.
 
I’m doing some upgrades to a school sound system, and found that they have hanging mics installed, with 2 groups wired in parallel. The splices were made in the ceiling, so it’s not as simple as separating them in the rack. Their xlr floor jacks were also all wired in parallel, but each line was brought into the rack, so easy to separate.
I’m planning to recommend the hanging mics get reworked. I haven’t tested them as-is yet, but what specific issues will this cause? I know mics should not be wired like this, but I want to give them a clear reason why.
Good morning @LPdan
I'll post a few quick comments and I'm certain several of our experts will post soon, if not while I'm typing:

Are the mics phantom powered; any of them, all of them?

One problem is most microphones are (to some degree) bi-directional transducers.
By design, they're intended to convert physical sound waves into AC electrical signals.
If you were to send an AC signal into their outputs, most, to some degree, would attempt to produce an audible output; not very loud, not very efficiently, and they wouldn't sound very good; none the less, they'd try.
The resultant mish-mash (a technical term) of the out of synch' signals of several mics listening to the same sounds separated by minor differences in arrival times would be something best left unheard, un-amplified, un-listened to and not presented to your paying patrons.

Additionally, microphone input preamps will be designed to receive signals from a range of microphone impedances, likely higher than what's being presented by your groups of parallel connected sources.

There's a few points to ponder while you're waiting for others to post.
@TimMc @MNicolai @anyone else: Care to leap to @LPdan 's query?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Thanks! And yes, they are all phantom powered.
@LPdan I'm ancient, decrepit, and stuck in my 1960's and 70's analogue ways.
In my era, phantom power was 48 volts, typically a matched pair of 6K8 resistors applied your 48 VDC equally to each of your balanced pairs with each pair of matched resistors anticipating powering ONE microphone driving into one transformer coupled and / or vacuum tube input.
In our present era, phantom powering could range from ~9 volts, through the 30's, to 48 VDC. All bets are off. I'm sure others will be along shortly.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Phantom power is still done much like Ron described, but having two microphones there won't cause problems with the phantom powering circuit. It may lower the voltage at the microphones, which some may be sensitive to, but most these days are designed to work okay at lower voltages since a few devices/systems put out lower voltages--mainly battery powered portable stuff; practically anything resembling a "normal" mixer will use 48V. If the microphones in question are dynamic microphones, it makes no difference at all as the phantom power is completely unused (that's basically the phantom part of it).

The main drawbacks I can see are potentially lower audio quality (higher noise, more distortion sooner, lower levels from any given microphone, etc.) and, probably most importantly, a huge reduction in flexibility when operating the system. You can't balance between the two microphones. You can't pan them a bit to make a stereo recording. You can't independently adjust their equalization if desired.

Low source impedances to a microphone preamplifier won't cause any problems for the preamp; there's no problem with shorting the inputs, and indeed that's a standard way to measure aspects of their performance. Audio generated by a dynamic microphone from a signal level such as another microphone would generate is essentially none; the power just isn't there to move any air. A condenser microphone would probably not produce even any theoretical audio output from a signal superimposed on its output due to their built-in preamplifier circuitry. Worries about phase cancelation etc. at the mixer are pretty much moot because you'd get exactly the same phase cancellations in the process of mixing the microphone signals together if they were separated.
 
For the past ten years due to lack of board inputs I have used two pairs of ganged Behringer C2s for the middle school choir risers ... never had a problem, signal, noise or otherwise. Different mics may behave differently though, so unless you need to discretely separate the mic inputs for other reasons (dissimilar mics, panning, dynamics, as mentioned above) I suggest you start by trying out whatever mics you intend to use for that location to see if there are any audible issues with those particular mics.

My personal two cents -- ceiling mics are area mics and don't pick up much very well anyway ... so not so critical on audio quality and flexibility.

And unless you have removable ceiling tiles, reworking in-ceiling wiring doesn't sound like a very fun or inexpensive thing to do ... you might find that money better spent elsewhere.

-- John
 
I appreciate all the input and expertise. My expectation was that it was bigger no-no than it seems to be. I’ll test them out and if they sound ok, let it go. It’s an elementary cafetorium, so no fancy mixing going on here. Thanks for all the help!
 

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