Gel Frames not fitting in Source 4ward Lenses

[Silent Gordon]

I feel like I'm going crazy, so I thought I'd come to ask for the wisdom of the crowd:
My theater company just converted our rehearsal hall to a black box space. Through an outside contractor, we obtained some old Source Fours and 50 degree lenses (we also got some Source 4ward retrofits, but I don't think that's germane to my question). When it came time to put diffusion in the lenses, my standard Source Four gel frames (6.25") didn't fit, they were slightly too big. I'm having trouble finding gel frames that are exactly 6", does anyone know what information I might be missing? As a short term solution, I've just gaffed the diffusion onto the instruments since they're LEDs, but I'd like a more professional solution.
Thanks!

 

[Michael K]

Did you take any pictures or do remember which revision the lens tubes are? I think I've used most of the lens revs and don't remember having this kind of issue, but haven't worked with the 4ward yet, so maybe there's something new.

 

[SteveB]

Never seen this. I'd just get some City Theatrical safety (cardboard) frames and trim them.

 

[DrewE]

Do you have access to a bandsaw with a metal cutting blade and a rip fence?

 

[RonHebbard]

Do you have access to a bandsaw with a metal cutting blade and a rip fence?

Or an Adel hand operated nibbler; exercise your hands and keep all your fingers.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[cbrandt]

This must be an issue with the lens tube, not the fixture itself, since the frame holder is there. Are these actual ETC lens tubes? Many people make "industry standard" ie knockoff versions of the S4 lens tube. I wonder if that is your issue.

 

[Ford]

I have a vague memory that in the early days of the S-4, the frames were asymmetrical (possibly 6x6.25")....
It is completely possible that I am misremembering this. I do know that I used to cut my gels asymmetrically to maximize the qty that I could get out of a standard sheet... I may be conflating these 2 ideas.

Anyone else have this memory... @derekleffew ?

 

[SteveB]

I have a vague memory that in the early days of the S-4, the frames were asymmetrical (possibly 6x6.25")....
It is completely possible that I am misremembering this. I do know that I used to cut my gels asymmetrically to maximize the qty that I could get out of a standard sheet... I may be conflating these 2 ideas.

Anyone else have this memory... @derekleffew ?

No, never saw asymetrical from ETC

 

[RonHebbard]

No, never saw asymetrical from ETC

To my limited knowledge, ETC color frames had larger openings supplied with wide zooms but the frames were always equal sized squares.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[derekleffew]

^^What they said.

Perhaps @Ford, you had some old frames from a Colortran ZoomMini which IIRC were rectangular and I believe fit the S4 in one dimension. Not the much-maligned MiniEllipse which fit also. I think I remember also using frames from an Altman 4.5" Zoom which were 6.25x6.25. @SteveB 's idea to use cardboard frames and trim them down is only slightly short of brilliant. To trim down metal frames is an invitation to tetanus.

I have to think @cbrandt is closest to correct: that you have non-ETC lens tubes mixed in there.

 

[Ford]

Thanks Derek! it's likely that I did have some old colortran frames mixed in.... and that combined with the Frugality of maximizing the frames per sheet combined to cloud my memory... that, or the Bourbon.

 

[SteveB]

Only C-Frame I can think of that wasnt square was maybe Kleigl. Ive had Colortran Mini-Ellipses as well as 6" zooms and all used standard sized 6-1/4 or 7-1/2 frames, as far as I can remember

 

[coolsvens]

As others have said. This should have nothing to do with the S4WRD retrofit for the Source4. That is just the light engine. It is entirely based on the lens tube. All ETC lens tubes have been 6.25"x6.25" for forever. See below.

It sounds like your lens tube is likely not from ETC and had a different gelframe size.

 

[microstar]

Only C-Frame I can think of that wasnt square was maybe Kleigl. Ive had Colortran Mini-Ellipses as well as 6" zooms and all used standard sized 6-1/4 or 7-1/2 frames, as far as I can remember

Only C-Frame I can think of that wasnt square was maybe Kleigl. Ive had Colortran Mini-Ellipses as well as 6" zooms and all used standard sized 6-1/4 or 7-1/2 frames, as far as I can remember

Something didn't sound right here, so just had a friend measure a Colortran Mini-ellipse frame and it is 4.5" x 5.25".

 

[MRW Lights]

Thanks Derek! it's likely that I did have some old colortran frames mixed in.... and that combined with the Frugality of maximizing the frames per sheet combined to cloud my memory... that, or the Bourbon.

 

[SteveB]

Something didn't sound right here, so just had a friend measure a Colortran Mini-ellipse frame and it is 4.5" x 5.25".

And thats what happens when I try to rely on memory from 35 years ago.

 

[almorton]

Only C-Frame I can think of that wasnt square was maybe Kleigl. Ive had Colortran Mini-Ellipses as well as 6" zooms and all used standard sized 6-1/4 or 7-1/2 frames, as far as I can remember

I have a feeling we have some CCT fixtures with frames that are not square, and I'm sure I've used an ADB PC with a non square frame, too.

Oh yeah, just remembered, I've got some PAR cans that take a frame that isn't square, too, bizarrely.

 

[RonHebbard]

I have a feeling we have some CCT fixtures with frames that are not square, and I'm sure I've used an ADB PC with a non square frame, too.

Oh yeah, just remembered, I've got some PAR cans that take a frame that isn't square, too, bizarrely.

Color frames for Strand / Ianaro Iris & Pallas 1,500 Watt incandescent / quartz cyc lights were far from square, at least they were rectangular unlike the Ianaro 6" one & two K Fresnel frames which were / are 8 sided.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[almorton]

True, the smaller Coda had a rectangular frame rather than square frame, too.

 

[JonCarter]

Measure the lens diameter - measure the frame holders - make a sketch. Then call your local sheet metal shop or HVAC contractor. They can punch and bend up all you want in a day or so for less than the instrument mfr's price.