# Gel Frames on P64 LED?

##### Active Member
I was wondering, why on Earth are there gel frames on ADJ P64 LED's? Its not like you need to put a red gel on it

#### zac850

##### Well-Known Member
The same thing it would do in any other light, soften the beam edges, blend everything together better. For example, if I had some LED PAR 64s as audience abuse lights, and I didn't want the audience to see each individual pixel, but only the circle of color out of the PAR64, I would put some R119 or R116 frost in it.

##### Active Member
The same thing it would do in any other light, soften the beam edges, blend everything together better. For example, if I had some LED PAR 64s as audience abuse lights, and I didn't want the audience to see each individual pixel, but only the circle of color out of the PAR64, I would put some R119 or R116 frost in it.

Ok, thats what I thought. Thanks!

#### soundman

##### Well-Known Member
What would the frost do on the P64? I know, idiotic question.

Lets say you were using them as backlight and you didn't want the pars to look like LED pars (I think its an ugly look) frost will help the leds blend together, not perfect but a fix.

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
If I was doing a rock'n'roll type gig with, say 30 of them as backlight, I'd want to have half of them amber shifted with something like R02 or R13. I'd also have the other half with R00, or I'd put a light frost in both and not put the double zero in the second half. This would eliminate the annoying visibility of the various LED's in the cans.

#### Sean

##### Active Member
If I was doing a rock'n'roll type gig with, say 30 of them as backlight, I'd want to have half of them amber shifted with something like R02 or R13. I'd also have the other half with R00, or I'd put a light frost in both and not put the double zero in the second half. This would eliminate the annoying visibility of the various LED's in the cans.

Why the amber shift? If it's a color-mixing unit, that is....

R00 is clear, btw. Won't make the LED's "go away".

--Sean

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
I'm one of those anal people who would have the R00 in there just because there was an amber shift in the others. I don't do this with regular lights, but just for the appearance of a backlit rock concert, that's what I would do, to have the uniformity of gels and gel frames in all fixtures.

I mentioned that if I didn't want the LED's to be seen, I would put in some light frost (don't have my Rosco book on me now, it's up in my room, but something in the 11x range, as in 114, 119, whatever is a nice light frost...I can never remember those).

And why the amber shift? Have you used an RGB LED unit? NO good amber. None. That's why. Just be able to have a completely different set of colors in the other unit.

#### Sean

##### Active Member
And why the amber shift? Have you used an RGB LED unit? NO good amber. None. That's why. Just be able to have a completely different set of colors in the other unit.
There isn't amber because LED's are not full-spectrum sources. If the wavelength isn't there in the first place, gel will not "make it appear".

A tungsten source emits a full white (composed of the whole rainbow, if you will). A filter takes out the undesired wavelengths. If the "amber" you want isn't there, you won't really get it.

It's not the same a color-correcting tungsten to daylight, etc. RGB LED's are narrow spikes on the spectrum.

--Sean

##### Active Member
I'm one of those anal people who would have the R00 in there just because there was an amber shift in the others. I don't do this with regular lights, but just for the appearance of a backlit rock concert, that's what I would do, to have the uniformity of gels and gel frames in all fixtures.

Why pay for all of the R00s and take the time to cut them, when if you want uniformity, just put gel frames w/ no gels?

#### bslproductions

##### Member
Why pay for all of the R00s and take the time to cut them, when if you want uniformity, just put gel frames w/ no gels?

The same reason you don't just wear frames on stage if your character has glasses, the audience can see that there is no material there. Even clear gel reflects light. It presents a better look. Although us lighting geeks would prob be the only ones to notice.

##### Active Member
The same reason you don't just wear frames on stage if your character has glasses, the audience can see that there is no material there. Even clear gel reflects light. It presents a better look. Although us lighting geeks would prob be the only ones to notice.

So what's it for then?

#### bslproductions

##### Member
So what's it for then?
It doesn't do anything. Think of it as a prop. Its there so that there appears to be a color gel in the frame. There is no optical purpose beyond the fact that every lighting fixture in the rig will visually look the same (ie, have a gel, even if it does nothing). Its more professional.

##### Active Member
It doesn't do anything. Think of it as a prop. Its there so that there appears to be a color gel in the frame. There is no optical purpose beyond the fact that every lighting fixture in the rig will visually look the same (ie, have a gel, even if it does nothing). Its more professional.

It's professional to waste money?

#### bslproductions

##### Member
It's professional to waste money?

You just don't get it? For thirty cans, your using what, 5 sheets of gel? Thats not a big expense, even to most small theatres. But as it seems you just want to argue the point, do what you feel is best. In my experience, the client will gladly pay the extra $40 in gel to get a clean, professional, symmetrical set. #### icewolf08 ##### CBMod CB Mods So what's it for then? There is another reason that people use R00 or other clear gel in their lights. That is, when you load in a show and you are using a crew that you may have never worked with before, or they are young or what have you, you can organize all of your color before hand and stack it in order and have someone put it in all the lights (usually SL to SR). But for the lights that are N/C or CLR if you don't put a frame, or even if you put a frame with nothing in it, the lackey you have working for you may think it is there in error and not put it in the light. Hence, putting R00 in a frame in the stack will make it look like it should be there. The major manufacturers wouldn't be selling clear gel if there wasn't a use for it. #### Charc ##### Well-Known Member There is another reason that people use R00 or other clear gel in their lights. That is, when you load in a show and you are using a crew that you may have never worked with before, or they are young or what have you, you can organize all of your color before hand and stack it in order and have someone put it in all the lights (usually SL to SR). But for the lights that are N/C or CLR if you don't put a frame, or even if you put a frame with nothing in it, the lackey you have working for you may think it is there in error and not put it in the light. Hence, putting R00 in a frame in the stack will make it look like it should be there. The major manufacturers wouldn't be selling clear gel if there wasn't a use for it. Doesn't the Rosco gel swatch book say R00 is for scrollers, so you can still have plain white light? (Just another use for R00, if it wasn't mentioned, or anyone cares.) #### Sean ##### Active Member #### PadawanGeek ##### Active Member You just don't get it? For thirty cans, your using what, 5 sheets of gel? Thats not a big expense, even to most small theatres. But as it seems you just want to argue the point, do what you feel is best. In my experience, the client will gladly pay the extra$40 in gel to get a clean, professional, symmetrical set.

Ok, ok... i was not just arguing for the heck of it. it just didn't make sense. I do that all of the time. ask my teachers.