The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Gel Sheet Sizing

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by MNicolai, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,073
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Why are gel sheets 20x24? Is there no other way to market them so that there isn't wasted gel?


    It seems like no matter how I make full cuts, and piece together one or two extras out of scotch tape, there are always scraps left over. I understand with all of the different frame sizes and applications it can be hard to come to a standard, but we're definitely entering the age of waste reduction. Even if it's not possible to reach a standard, why 20x24?
     
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Furthermore, why are Lee Filters "Half Sheets" (in North America) 21"x24"? And why is Apollo the only manufacturer to offer sheets in two sizes (20"x24" and 24"x24")?
     
  3. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,365
    Likes Received:
    502
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    Well, best reason I have heard is that back in tha day, when real gelatine was used to make real gels, instead of plastic color media, the metal bakers sheets that were used to make the sheets of gel were 20 x 24.
     
  4. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,028
    Likes Received:
    772
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Habit and no real logic, especially as frames sizes have shrunk with the 6.25" sizes.

    Can't think of any reason to change it, as you still end up with 6.25", 7.5", 10", plus a ton of cyc light sizes. Thus there will probably always be wastage.

    SB
     
  5. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,073
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Why not continue to offer the sheets for larger cuts, but also offer sheets (and/or rolls) that are 6.25" wide, 7.5" wide, or a combination, and are a product of those numbers long? When I order gels, I have a pretty good idea how they're going to be used, and for those less certain(or more certain, depending on the case), they could order 13.75" wide gel that allow for both 7.5" and 6.25" cuts.

    Sure there will still be scoops and cyc lights and border lights that may have completely different sizes, but realistically, most gels are destined for 6.25" and 7.5" cuts.

    The only exchange I see(aside from changing the factory processes) for getting the material saved is a more complicated process of ordering when specifying which gels to buy.

    How much money do you think goes down the drain each year if you took the total square footage of scrap gel material and put a price tag on it?
     
  6. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,616
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    That's a great question for our buddy from Apollo [user]Kelite[/user]. Unfortunately for us (fortunately for him) he's probably currently out in the woods with no internet access enjoying Christmas with his family. Look for an answer from him in a few days.
     
  7. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA


    You've learned to read me like a book, Gafftaper!

    For those of you that may not have seen the educational 'How it's Made' video regarding gel filters, it's five minutes well spent.
    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqxNpEiKw-w[/media]
    The jumbo roll width is 48 inches, which allows the manufacturer to cut sheets into whatever they deem wise. We've seen 20 x 24 inch, 21 x 24 inch, and yes, Apollo also offers 24 x 24 inch sheet sizes to maximize yield (depending upon the frame size required).

    This chart allows the user to compare conventional 20 x 24 inch sheet yield vs 24 x 24 inch sheets.

    http://downloads.goapollo.com/PerfGel Sheet Cost Yield Comparison.pdf


    Glad to be back! Please let me know if I may offer any tips or hints!
     
  8. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,073
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    The 24x24 sheets look like the best solution for 6.25" and 7.5" frames, so long as someone is not expecting to get cuts of both sizes out of the same sheet. I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I go gel shopping.
     
  9. rochem

    rochem Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    New York, NY


    "Gels and filters can turn a bad scene into a good one."

    Oh, wouldn't that be nice if it were true :).
     
  10. 1kfresnel

    1kfresnel Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Haha, quite. I also never heard that narrator before.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but Lee is one of the companies that doesn't "seal in" the color layer, right? I know the conditions surrounding gel life, gel replacement, etc are all debatable and each LD has their preferences. I'm just referring to the physical construction of the medium.
     
  11. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    2,849
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Amaze your teachers, amuse your friends! Try this: Take a piece of Lee Filters, any color but preferably a dark one. Dampen a piece of white cloth and rub the filter. Watch what happens!
     
  12. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA
    Both Apollo and Lee Filters produce gel filters that are double-coated for color consistency. These products are not multi-layered or co-extruded, but rather from a single substrate of polyester.
     
  13. 1kfresnel

    1kfresnel Member

    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Thanks Keltie. I assume it's mostly marketing otherwise...

    My observations from the video is that it bonded / was colorfast almost instantly. A physical means it not always greater than a chemical means :)

    derek -- sounds like an experiment for the kiddos!
     
  14. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Fort Wayne IN, USA
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice