Gelled music stand lights

[SteveB]

This might once have been in the Punching Bag...

My Production Manager and I are currently studying the tech. rider for Tommy Tune's "Step's In Time" show, rolling thru our doors in mid November.

One thing that has us laughing at the absurdity is the LD's choice of color for the 5 music stand lights as being Rosco 3314, Tough 1/4 Minusgreen. A very pale pink. The stand lights are to be dimmed as well, though there's no channel in the hookup, so I'm uncertain if the lights are in the cues.

Not R33. Not R35, not any number of similar colors that a theater would more commonly have in inventory. I may well have to go and buy a sheet of this, and I'll likely NEVER use it again. I have to ask if this particular very well known Broadway designer actually went thru the gel book and pondered whether this particular pink would work better then any other pale pink and whether she actually took time out of the design process to give equal due to the color of the music stand lights. Is this part of the overall design concept ?. Is this particular color key to how the audience perceives the rest of the palette ?.

I know this LD. I know her background and that she pretty much went right from college to assisting big name LD's on Broadway, thus no real experience at touring a dance company or bus and truck. Thus nobody's ever hit her with a reality check.

And if I substitute an R33 instead, will the musicians or Tommy actually notice ?.

Sigh...

Steve B

 

[Grog12]

Considering that 3314 is a whole lot lighter than 33....probably, but they probably won't care.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

It's only one sheet, is $7 really going to hurt you that much? And if R3314 really is such a "weird" color as you think, then chances are good that she probably DID look through the swatchbook until she found the right color for her design.

While I'm not sure how this fits her design, I'm sure that if someone such as Jules Fisher did this we'd all applaud it as genius, but in this case it sounds more like you might have some personal vendetta against this designer. Also, honestly, what's not to like about having another color of gel to play with in the inventory?

just my $0.02

 

[SteveB]

It's only one sheet, is $7 really going to hurt you that much? And if R3314 really is such a "weird" color as you think, then chances are good that she probably DID look through the swatchbook until she found the right color for her design.

While I'm not sure how this fits her design, I'm sure that if someone such as Jules Fisher did this we'd all applaud it as genius, but in this case it sounds more like you might have some personal vendetta against this designer. Also, honestly, what's not to like about having another color of gel to play with in the inventory?

just my $0.02

No vendetta, as I haven't worked with this LD since she got really famous and no, a $7 sheet won't kill us, especially as I suspect that I'll have other color to order as well (haven't gotten that far with the plot yet). I'm not likely to ever re-use the gel as it's only 6 cuts and it'll sit in a file folder in our gel cabinets for the next 30 years.

My lament is the silliness of it. Many experienced LD's, understanding the vagaries of the venues the act will play, would simply ask for a "light pink to reduce the glare". Other LD's may well have been on the road with a musical or dance company and come to understand that this level of specification is sometimes just not going to be met. I would venture that at over half the venues, especially those where getting gel ordered is more difficult and time consuming there are Prod. Managers telling electricians, "Just stick a light pink in the light". That's what made me rant.

Mind you this is a TAP show and the artist has not been very specific with the quaility or type of floor he's performing on. That's the irony. Gregory Hines, a deceased but famous tap dancer was so specific, we moved his event off our very deep pit to avoid the booming (he traveled with a sprung tap floor). That in turn caused issues with seating the pit, but GH's rider was extraordinarily specific and I respect that.

This rider is somewhat less tight in certain aspects (IMO) and the R3314 was a typical weirdness, thus the rant.

Rant over

SB

 

[jstandfast]

Having had my own run ins with the designer in question( one of them on an earlier
iteration of the show you're dealing with ) I can generally sympathize; however, on this specific issue i gotta side with the gent in Milwaukee. You've perhaps picked the wrong
soap(or apple)box to jump on here; it is one sheet of color, it won't break the bank, and it's
not as though you were in Toad Lick or Magnitigorsk , how many subway stops is it to your
Roscolux store ?

 

[SteveB]

One point that I am trying to get across, and as a lesson to up and coming LD's, is to learn what's important to the design and what's not, especially when you are doing a design for a road event that you will not be traveling with and that will not have an LD.

This particular LD is not up and coming, she's "there" and has certainly earned the right of respect for picking a particular color for a music stand light, as seemingly non-important as that is.

However and as lessened learned. that particular choice of gel for something as low priority as the stand lights is maybe not a place where you want to be picky. Especially as there's a very good chance that in the time since the LD actually designed and sat down and cued this show, there have been many, many performances and one thing I see all the time is when the act actually gets to the space, with the LD nowhere to be found, the road manager/production manager/stage manager/whomever, has already decided, sometimes at the musicians request, that ANY light pink will work, or usually they don't care or want white light, as that's what they are used to every other gig they play.

A good LD will develop a sense of what aspects of the design are crucial, what can be changed on site and what are at house prerogative. Telling the house "A light pink in the music stand lights to reduce glare" would be nice and usually the house LD/ME will understand the wisdom of that choice and will gladly comply. Sometimes a note on the plot about how the music stand lights having a gel is indeed an important thing, is all that's needed.

None of that is the case here. Indeed, the LD doesn't even have the music stand lights as a channel in the hookup, so what does that tell me ?. The hookup also has all the bax Par64's as mediums and guess what, the house rep plot has S4 Wides and that's what they are going to be and if the act had a touring LD they would be fine with that, recognizing that in this venue the wide works better.

Thus and at most venues, the lighting adapts, and having taken the time to pick R3314 for music stand lighting, thus seems totally silly.

But I'll buy it anyway and when the tour PM/RM/SM tells me "Oh any light pink'll work" I'll laugh.

SB

 

[soundman]

Perhaps this is a case of brown M&Ms. Something put in the plot to throw a red flag to anyone paying attention when the PM gets the call about subing R33 for the stand lights she or he knows that the venue looked everything over with a fine tooth comb. However if during the advance they ask if the lighting will work and the venue says, sure we have everything in stock, the PM knows that they only glanced at it and can expect a rough day.

 

[shiben]

My view on it is be glad you got a rider with full information in the first place. I have done many shows where they had very specific wishes which were not communicated to the venue, and especially with a touring band, when you NEED to have some specific lighting component or sidelight booms are NEVER acceptable, you should probably throw that in the rider... And not just small regional acts either. However, I can definitely see the LD having to answer some questions about that specific color at any venue I have worked at recently, as its not typically stocked in theaters. Potentially this is why tours not brining their own rig should ride with an LD?

 

[cprted]

Why don't you email the LD and say "I don't have any 3314 in stock. Would 33 or 333 be an acceptable substitution?"

Never swap gels without checking with the touring LD/TD first. Nine times out of ten, a close substitution will be just fine, but clear it ahead of time so there are no unhappy surprises during focus.

 

[derekleffew]

FWIW, 1/2CTO + 1/4MinusGreen is my default color for Xenon followspots with video. gafftapegreenia got it right--$7 is not going to kill you. Surely you have bigger fish to fuss over than this?

...Indeed, the LD doesn't even have the music stand lights as a channel in the hookup, so what does that tell me ?. ...

Perhaps it tells you that the LD is following the once-common practice of putting the stand lights on an ATD, under the control of the conductor. Not sure how/why you're expected to know that, however.

 

[SteveB]

FWIW, 1/2CTO + 1/4MinusGreen is my default color for Xenon followspots with video. gafftapegreenia got it right--$7 is not going to kill you. Surely you have bigger fish to fuss over than this?

Yeah, you guys are right, I just needed a bit of a reality check here and it's the first rider for the big acts I've looked at this year, so gotta chill over the music stand lights

Nothing some Xanax won't take care of ! (JK)

Thanks all for listening.



SB

 

[shiben]

Nothing some Xanax won't take care of ! (JK)

Or maybe just hit a local watering hole?

 

[SteveB]

Remember R3314 ?

And the whole thread/rant that I started about B-way LD's specifying stuff NOBODY will provide ?.

So the Artist and his SM/PM do a site survey today, very nice folks and the show will be great.

I find a moment to ask the SM/PM about the R3314 in the music stand lights.

"Huh", he replies.

"You know, that odd light pink the LD specified - R3314, 1/2 minus green ?" I remind him.

"Really ?" he says, "I have to look at that in the rider, we don't need that, any light pink'll do".

Pretty funny.

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Remember R3314 ?

I am not a Broadway LD. I work exclusively on the Regional Level.

I have done several shows where the music stand light color was critical. But in all of these instances the orchestra was on stage in full view and was part of the design (I recently did a show where I used a small Chauvet LED that I can't remember the name of for stand lights because we wanted them to change color with the show).

For something like this, I don't see how any light pink would not work.

However I have also specified riders with what I WANT and then leave it up to the house to tell me if they don't have/can't do something.

Also, working on the Regional Level it is very hit or miss. Half the time the venue will order whatever I want. The other half they don't have R60 (who doesn't have R60???) and so I have to change the color in the design or hit up the company for the money to buy the gels.

Mike