# Getting new toys, any comments on the parts list so far?

#### dvsDave

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I work for our college's Program Board (an events programming/planning board) and we have our own sound rig.... I took over the chair in the fall and now I am ready to start the process of updating the equipment...

Just wanted to get some opinions on my parts list so far...
[*] (8) 25’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (6) 10’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (1) 25’ Whirlwind Mini 6
[*] (1) Cable Tester
[*](40) Velcro Cable ties (as close to the Shure cable ties as possible)

This has to be sent out as a bid, that's why not all the equipment is specificed and left open to what the company feels is a good deal.

I have to move this rig around campus about one every 2 weeks... I need some decent equipment because of the abuse it is subjected to (trying to minimize as much of that as possible)

Wireless UHF rig (nice shure model) has to wait for next semester's budget as well as compressors and a 2 channel full 1/3 octave equalizer. New lightweight road cases as well... and if all my wishes come true then I will get an ethernet-based snake!!

#### DMXtools

##### Active Member
I'd suggest getting all of your mic cables in 30' length, or maybe ten 30' and four 50' - The extra length won't have a noticeable effect on the sound quality, but will allow you to more easily route the cables around the periphery of the stage, where they won't get tripped on. If a cable is too long, you can just leave part of it coiled. If it's too short, you're screwed.

With the longer cables, you might be able to forego the sub-snake. Put that money into the graphic EQ.

I'd also skip the GIs. Most guitarists pick their amps and speakers for a particular sound and would prefer that you mic them, regardless of how good the GI might sound.

As has been discussed in other sound questions, you may want to substitute Shure PG 57's and 58's for the SMs and save a little money (or get a couple more of them).

John

#### delnor

##### Active Member
I'd agree with everything DMX tools had to say, the SMs are great mics and you probably don't need the PGs. Also you might want to spec out the case you are looking for that way you get what you want. If you don't spec it out you will get something funky and cheap. I have that same Allen and Heath board at one of the schools I do tech for, it works wonderfully. No complaints. Of course I am a soundcraft fan but that one is nice because you can mount it in three different positions, it has a lot of versatility in that respect.

#### dvsDave

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thanks for the tip on the drum kit case...

As far as mic cables go... good idea as well.... I had to check to make sure that 30' was a standard size.... I didn't think so.. but I was wrong...

as far as the subsnake goes.. that was supposed to be a 50' not a 25'.... it has to serve the dual purpose as a mini-snake for when we show movies, so I don't have to haul our big snake out every week.

As far as the SM vs. PG series... don't really have a choice. almost every tech rider that I have to have equipment for specifies an SM58/57. Some performers are really picky about mics... I mic'ed a professional jazz floutist last week and I had brought both an SM58(voals for between pieces) and an SM57(for the flute). however, he wanted it backwards.. he liked the SM58's pickup for the flute better than the SM57.

But next year I may pick up some PG series as backup mics...

anyway... I need the DI boxes for keyboards and the GI's for bassists who don't have a built-in DI. I use my other 57's to mic the guitar cabinets, but I like to have a direct feed of the bass so they don't have to crank the amp and possibly blow out the onstage circuits of our one antique stage.

#### wolf825

##### Senior Team Emeritus
dvsDave said:
I work for our college's Program Board (an events programming/planning board) and we have our own sound rig.... I took over the chair in the fall and now I am ready to start the process of updating the equipment...

Just wanted to get some opinions on my parts list so far...
[*] (8) 25’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (6) 10’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (1) 25’ Whirlwind Mini 6
[*] (1) Cable Tester
[*](40) Velcro Cable ties (as close to the Shure cable ties as possible)
[/list:72c3cd35dd]

This has to be sent out as a bid, that's why not all the equipment is specificed and left open to what the company feels is a good deal.

I have to move this rig around campus about one every 2 weeks... I need some decent equipment because of the abuse it is subjected to (trying to minimize as much of that as possible)

Wireless UHF rig (nice shure model) has to wait for next semester's budget as well as compressors and a 2 channel full 1/3 octave equalizer. New lightweight road cases as well... and if all my wishes come true then I will get an ethernet-based snake!!
Looking at your list I note a few things to consider--the extra cable length that DMX said is worth it cause you will just hate coming up shy on cable lengths...and if you need a company who sells quality 30' (32' & 64' really) XLR mic cables etc as "stock" and not special order (and cheap--I think it was $19 for a quad star XLR cable in one of those lengths), let me know. I personally would go with lengths no shorter than 25' for stage..and 50' for lead vocals...and more of those or longer lengths. 10' lengths are useless on stage most times..even if the snake box lives next to the drummer. So IOW you may want to make them ALL 25' or better and nix the 10's..just IMO. Did you consider the cables you need for your speaker/amp runs from your snake? Never have enough cables... If you can spec the cable tester--I would suggest the EWI Bug Catcher--or at the least the Behringer cable tester. To my surprise--the little behringer tester is a dandy item. Beats Whirlwinds I'm sad to say..but the EWI is my fave to have in my bag for cable testing. Its very cool with tons of features for near the same money. Heres the link for the bug catcher..they are just getting their server switched so the web link may go down occasionally. Great folks to deal with..tell Liz I say howdy if you check them out. http://www.ewiusa.net/Bug_Catcher.htm The DI's and stuff are ok--you may want to add a few 1/4" TS instrument cables no more than 10' in length to your set up....cause how many times has the guitar or keyboard player shown up without a 1/4" cable or the second 1/4" to jump between the DI and his amp....DUH..same for a few good power strips or quad boxes...but I draw the line at bringing MIDI cables. And I charge people if they forget their AC cable that plugs into their keyboard or amp. I carry a couple of those AC cables you find on your PC's and nearly everything--and a universal DCV transformer with multiple plug end adaptors for those forgotten wall warts people forget. Hope they have cash cause I take no checks or plastic... For your drum stuff--lots of pre-packed drum mic's out there in cases now a days..but be warned about some of these package deals to ensure they come complete--some do not come with clips to the drums unless its a specialized clip, and others come with no specialty mic's which you may be hoping you get--the cheaper shure boxes come with 57's, and a kick drum mic and no condensors for overheads--big whoop. Some like the Shure will come with clips for the mics--but you provide the stands. So you may want to try and at least spec a brand or model--like Shure or Audix or Audio Technica so you can at least get something close to what you want. Also note--these pre-packed cases are an easy-walk for some thief--guard them thoroughly. I use the Audix and Shure Beta drum packs..nice kits both of them...lots of nice features..especially on the audix and their rim mount gooseneck clips which I think you are considering in your "clips" and come standard for the Audix mic's. The Q box by whirlwind is a cool item tohave handy if you can sneak it into your budget this time around or next time. Two of these make a intercom, but being able to test the line anywhere in your chain with the Q box is a valuable and time-saving thing. Highly suggest that toy for your bag of tricks... FWIW since I don't know what you do and do not have already, you can get a nice storage bin on wheels with a top for about$30 from Home Depot or Lowes for toting around this stuff.. Last thing you may want to consider is some shorter patch cables, turn arounds/gender benders for XLR, and some of the cheap gig-box stuff like headphones or a talkback mic. But then again--you may have all that already....

my 2 cents...
-wolf

#### Nephilim

##### Active Member
Do not buy Shure UT. Just a tip from experience ULX at the least (or that new line, what is it SLX?)

Don't lock yourself to Shure wireless; yes they have world-class cartridges, but the Sennheiser evolution wireless systems, especially the 300 and 500 lines, are amazing. Do some comparisons if you can.

#### DMXtools

##### Active Member
DI versus GI - for bass, I use a plain DI patched between the instrument and the amp, just like you do for a keyboard. - that way you're not locked into the "smiley face" EQ that so many otherwise-competent bassists set on their amps.

The GI is meant to emulate a speaker cabinet - what do you do if it's a combo amp with no output for an external speaker? And even if it has a speaker output, EQ that sounds good through a cabinet designed for bass guitar might not sound so great through a full-range PA. Plus the extra parts to emulate the sound of a 4X12 guitar (not bass, by the way) cabinet add cost - the plain DI is probably cheaper.

John

#### dvsDave

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Nephilim said:
Don't lock yourself to Shure wireless; yes they have world-class cartridges, but the Sennheiser evolution wireless systems, especially the 300 and 500 lines, are amazing. Do some comparisons if you can.
Thanks for the tip... won't be getting those till next year so I have time to research that. Nor would I ever get a UT system either... yuck... wireless is one thing I refuse to compromise on quality. Also why i am buying it next year with a full budget instead of getting cheap ones this year.

DMXtools said:
DI versus GI - for bass, I use a plain DI patched between the instrument and the amp, just like you do for a keyboard. - that way you're not locked into the "smiley face" EQ that so many otherwise-competent bassists set on their amps.
Good point, I'll just order 4 DI's instead of 2 DIs & 2GIs.

Wolf825 said:
If you can spec the cable tester--I would suggest the EWI Bug Catcher--or at the least the Behringer cable tester. To my surprise--the little behringer tester is a dandy item. Beats Whirlwinds I'm sad to say..but the EWI is my fave to have in my bag for cable testing. Its very cool with tons of features for near the same money. Heres the link for the bug catcher..they are just getting their server switched so the web link may go down occasionally. Great folks to deal with..tell Liz I say howdy if you check them out.
http://www.ewiusa.net/Bug_Catcher.htm
surprise, surprise, the site was down when I checked it... but I googled it and I like... dave like!!

Wolf825 said:
The Q box by whirlwind is a cool item tohave handy if you can sneak it into your budget this time around or next time. Two of these make a intercom, but being able to test the line anywhere in your chain with the Q box is a valuable and time-saving thing. Highly suggest that toy for your bag of tricks...
ooh.... definitely will add two of these to my bag o' tricks by next year...

Alright then... let me update this bid list with your suggestions...

#### dvsDave

##### Benevolent Dictator
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Here's an updated list based on suggestions thus far...
[*] (3) 50’ XLR Male to Female (quality cables that can stand up to abuse)
[*] (5) 30’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (6) 20’ XLR Male to Female
[*] (5) 10’ TS Instrument Male to Male
[*] (1) 50’ Whirlwind Mini 6
[*] (1) Cable Tester (Behringer CT100 preferred and please list your price for an EWI Bug Catcher if you carry it)
[*](40) Velcro Cable ties (as close to the Shure cable ties as possible)
[/list:313e13886e]

#### DMXtools

##### Active Member
I'd add another short-but-not-quite-as-short-as-the-kick stand for the snare mic. Sometimes it's difficult to get a regular boom stand in amongst the various cymbals. Could use a clip, but I've found that a clip will sometimes accent the "boing" you can get from a lot of snaredrums.

Other than that, I think it's an excellent list.

John

#### The_Terg

##### Active Member
Mmm, I luve the bugcatcher as well... The place I work at has 2 of them, and they are GREAT for troubleshooting those cables. I wish I had one of em for the school, but we never make cables there, so it would be a waste...

I like the sennheiser wireless mics. We have one of their EW 300 kits, and Its been producing some pretty decent quality. I have had no problems with range or pickup, being that it's a diversity system. I think its a good buy without sacrificing quality. I dont know how expensive they go for, but Im pretty confident that the sennheiser can produce products of equivalent quality at a lower price.

#### Nephilim

##### Active Member
The_Terg said:
We have one of their EW 300 kits, and Its been producing some pretty decent quality.
We use a hand-held 300 in the stadium for anthem/field announcing, and we haven't found the max range on that thing. Receiver in press box, stock antennae, I was in the parking lot and it was still picking up clearly.

We have a set of six EW100s with the cardioid lavalier (ME-4?) and the EW100 bodypacks in the theater. We took them to CETA and they worked fine; LA's crazy TV broadcasts didn't bother them too much.