The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Glue 'n Screw

Discussion in 'Scenery, Props, and Rigging' started by Charc, Jul 25, 2008.

  1. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    46
    Not until this summer had I been taught "Glue 'n Screw", or really glue n' anything. I was told a faster, such as a staple or screw, was not sufficient, and didn't really do much, and requires glue.

    Prior to this, I'd never been taught that concept on attaching stuff together.

    Back at my internship, I spent days on end shooting together studwalls with just staples, that were to last 4-8 weeks. Just another example of how everyone has their own way of doing things.

    What do you guys do, and why?
     
  2. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    There is a lot of "situational dependency" when dealing with glue. Let's say you're covering a studio flat with Luan, The staples are really only there to hold the luan on until the glue dries, or sets depending on what kind of glue you are using. Since a staple, nail or screw is a friction device it depends on the thickness of the materials it's penetrating to acheive it's bond, when stapling through a thin brittle material, luan, into a thicker denser material, 1x, you have a very weak bond and need the glue to adhere the larger surface area. Gluing end or butt joints doesn't do much as there is not enough surface area for the glue to create a serious bond.
    Now in certain circumstances, it may be that you want to only staple the luan. This would be the case in a situation where you are going to be applying something like a thick texture, and want to be able to easily remove the luan after the show closes so you can re-use the frame of the flat. Of course this situation usually only comes up when you are building a bunch of standard size flats like 4x8 or 10 rather than the odd 2'3 1/4" by 12'2 3/16" flat.
     
  3. Marius

    Marius Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    I glue and staple flats. I just use 3" screws on platform frames and 1 5/8" screws to put the lids on. I only recently encountered platforms that were glued and screwed, and it made cannibalizing them very difficult. I'm sure there is a somewhat larger margin of safety if you glue the lid to the platform, but I have never had an unglued platform fall apart on me.
     
  4. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,666
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    PA & NJ
    Unless I will be taking the set piece apart to reuse the wood or the legs/frame/cover (which doesn't happen that often, as alot of it goes in to stock as is), I'll glue almost everything. It makes for a better connection between the two pieces of wood, and really helps the joint hold up better. Think about it - with a screw, you have a connection at one place, with 3 screws, 3 points of connection. With glue, you make a connection (while it is not as strong) over the whole surface that you're connecting, which often keeps joints from coming loose and sliding around during the run of a show.
     
  5. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    1,846
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    We go a bit beyond that here, but then again we are making scenery that should last for years, and survive a truck. If we are building a studio flat, we glue and staple it, if we are building a 4x8, we glue and nail it (with a pneumatic nailer, much faster). Beyond that, everything we build that will ever leave on a truck, is steel and then covered with a sheet good of some sort, and for that we use a nailer that we have absolutely fell in love with which is far superior then the traditional t-nail. That being.... Pneumatic Tools and Steel Pins for Light Gauge Steel Construction and Other Fastening Applications - Aerosmith® Fastening Systems

    If you EVER cover steel platforms or flats, this is a must. Beats t-nails or god forbid tek screws any day.
     
    Van likes this.
  6. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    I've got half a Butt ton of steel fraed cubes to make, I'm gonna look into one of those.
     
  7. gaafa

    gaafa Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cockburn West Ausrtralia
    The main thing to keep in mind when using glued joints, is is not the quantity of glue that goes in, but the amount squeezed out - That counts!.
    With butt joints on reusable pieces, I use the loose pin hinges ;-
    Scenery Fixings - Loose Pin Hinge
    especially when placing together flats & joining rostra to set pieces. Also I won't have nails on my mind & prefer not use them on sets & shy away from staples as much as I can.
    keystones & gussets on joints also helps, by not just relying on glue 'n screw. Even with fixed joints, such as Tennant, Halving or Biscuit.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,444
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Nailing into steel??? What will they think of next?:lol:
    Meanwhile, I'm turning on the hotplate under the double boiler of animal glue so I can size the muslin.:rolleyes: Note to self: need to order another 25 lbs. of Cerulean Blue, where's that Gothic catalog?
     
  9. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    1,846
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Thats a smell I am still trying to forget...
     
  10. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    You Know what that smell is ? It's Casein. God, I love the smell of Casein in the morning. I reminds me of.... Art.
     
  11. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,614
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Hey Charc, I glue and screw some things and just screw or nail others. If the thing being built has any sort of safety problem potential then glue and screw. Other than platforms... at least the way I build them... I have no fear that they are going to fall apart somehow without glue.


    Sounds like somebody's sniffed a little too much Casein.
     
  12. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    Likes Received:
    40
    Occupation:
    Freelance Lighting Programmer/grandMA Trainer
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Smells like art eh, someone spent too much time around the art students:rolleyes:
     
  13. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    1,175
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    No, Art students always smell like Patchouli.......
     
  14. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,444
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Re: Glue 'n' Screw

    You were told wrong. As Van so eloquently stated "situation dependency" is the key. Modern adhesives are often stronger than the materials being joined. The mechanical fasteners (particularly inter-fibrous friction fasteners) serve more as clamps to hold a joint together while the glue cures, and could be removed with no loss in strength. However, in theatre, few items are built to last forever. After a run, we like to take things apart for reuse and recycle-ability. Finding the perfect balance of strength vs. ease of disassembly is a continuing quest.

    Around 1980, an alumnus returned to my college and brought with him drawings of a show called Hello Hollywood, Hello, from Reno, NV. Stamped on every drawing was the phrase "ALL SCENERY MUST LAST 6,000 PERFORMANCES!" Turns out the phrase was wrong, as the production ran 11 years and over 7,000 performances. Glue was involved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2008
  15. napoleond

    napoleond Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a good friend once brought to my attention: "Patchouli is the only scent that simultaneously masks the stench of pot, body odor, and personal, abject failure."

    That said: Glue & Screw has its place especially with regard to touring stuff but in my circumstance storage and cash is an issue. One show's platform could very well turn into part of another show's escape stairs.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice