Guys & Dolls

Hi,
I am from a high school in Sydney Australia and this year my school as our musical is doing Guys And Dolls, i was just wondering whether you still have your Lighting plots and plans of your design as it would help me alot to be able to get some ideas as to what others have done.
Regards,
Zac Shenker
 
Sorry, I haven't been online in a while;

mayhem said:
Don't confuse the lack of multiple user responses as a sign of disinterest. You have had 72 views and 15 posts (well 73 and 16 now).

Good point Mayhem, thanks for the reminder, I always forget about considering how many people have viewed rather than who actually posts, thanks for cluing me in. :oops:

On another note;

yellow_fuzzy said:
I am from a high school in Sydney Australia and this year my school as our musical is doing Guys And Dolls, i was just wondering whether you still have your Lighting plots and plans of your design as it would help me alot to be able to get some ideas as to what others have done.

I have three word documents that are my dimmer, channel, and cue list but I don't have the final plot for the show on the computer. If it would be helpful I can send you those documents to take a look at if they would help, if not I can answer any questions you might have about the plot or what we did with the show if that would be helpful?
 
I realize this post is a bit dated now, but figured I'd respond. I'm not sure where to begin, really, as this is my first reply here.

I'll start by adressing your observations, I think.

The lenses do make a huge difference in the Source Four PARs, definitely. I had a show in a very tight venue where a MFL wouldn't cut is and a WFL totally did the job to it's fullest. Still not quite the right instrument for the job, however. Ended up using a few older fresnels for the fills and just used the PARs for some odd specials.

PARs for area lighting, depending on the lense, can be either a boon or a terrible thing... It really depends on how the lighting area is shaped or what is actually in that lighting area(assuming a static set piece or props, etc) It also relies heavily on which lenses you have available and how far away from the stage your electrics are. At one venue where the electrics were only about 14'' from the stage, a PAR couldn't do the job at all, but at another, where the electrics were raised to 25', the pars worked fantastically. The lense plays a big role in it, but distance does as well, or so I've noticed.

Spot on about the ERS to separate areas, but don't forget, you don't have to leave an area dark to remove focus. Sometimes washing the stage in a very cool color and giving the action a more intense color (doesn't necessarily have to be warmer, just more intense) is just as effective. This is my personal favorite style of separation. The last show I lit was, A Clockwork Orange and throughout the whole play I made sure everything was constantly lit (static set). Then, when the key moment for a special hit (just after a rape scene) I used a singule pin spot on the victim and her husband in the center of the stage. It was rather powerful and I think it really helped the effect that it wasn't over used throughout the rest of the production.

Focussing is very important, but I wouldn't say it's the backbone to a good design. It is very important to me, as a perfectionist, but in some situations, the focus can be a bit loose if you're willing to play with intensities.

Definitely go the photo-copied, 3 ring binder. That's bar none the best way to do it. I used a clipped script for A Clockwork Orange and it was hellish. I ended up just using the Stage Manager's script half the time because of it. (I'm lazy, sue me!) If you ever have to do it yourself, just go to Kinko's or some other equivalent place. Have them just photocopy the script and do all the hole punching for you. Only will probably cost a few dollars and as we all know... time = money.

I don't know about only two parts. Lighting design is much more complicated than most outsiders would think, that's for sure. There're a few notable stages I think. Concept, Plotting, Hanging, Programming. Of course, there's also rental / budget considerations... buying color, and all that jazz.

So, I guess... Concept, Plotting, Acquisition of Resources, Hanging(And focus), and then Programming... In all of my designs so far they all sort of dove-tailed. Plotting would sometimes still be taking place during the hang / focus...when I'd get to a space and see that, even though the plans for the space didn't mention it, there's an overlap from a girder that blocks a lighting angle I planned on using, or sometimes the set changes and I have to readjust....

Then hanging and focussing is a never ending process I've found. Always tweaking until the final tech reherasal.(Never change anything but timing on that rehersal, personally. Unless something is majorly messed up. Oi, musical finales can be annoying.)

In my opinion, color choice and intensity is a much bigger part of light design than the focus. No matter how centered a light is, if it's not the right color, you're not going to get the right reaction. That may be something that is taken for granted, but I felt like reitterating it.

Tips that I have... Get those butt-heads at your school to allow members of the class / theatre group to access the instruments in the house... That's number one and I know it probably won't happen (I hated High School Theater... such a pain, going back for my internship, yay...) Most of what else I'd say would probably make me seem like an idiot, so I'll just keep it to myself =) The main thing I've found with theatrical lighting and probably my number one tip... Don't be afraid to experiment! Try that really crazy idea you had. Buy the fabric / gel / gobo yourself if you need to, but try it! The only thing that can happen is that the director won't like it and you'll just have to put it in your own personal stock for use later.

I'm really curious, what kind of dimming system are you using? It almost looks like you have strips of ROSCO's dimmers on each electric... if you do, I envy you... such a money saver in the long run. (I don't know how many miles of cable we have... stupid Dimmer Beach) Great choice on a board, by the way. The Express is perfect for High School theatrical productions, I think. It's easy to use and easy to learn. It's also a great stepping stone to bigger boards. My old High School used the Horizon program with a dongle that had 24 Submasters... it was sad. I didn't know what a light board was until I started doing community theater. Which brings me to my next thing...

Community theater. Do it if you want some experience. I believe I've done about 10 or so community productions... all of them were volunteer, except for a few that compensated for gas mileage (which ended up being less than I spent on gas anyway...) It's great experience if you can stand all of the egos. Though, you'll get egos even if professoinal theater. Really though, any occupation or profession is full of egos and politics... so it's just choosing your poison. Community theater is rewarding in that it shows you how to do a lot of neat things with less than adequate resources. A few old malls that are turned into theaters, a few 20 year old instruments and archaic systems that produce wonderful shows will get you inspired and learn how to work with what you've got.


Sorry I'm so long winded... and all of this post is just my personal opinion as a young lighting designer and technician. Theater is a wonderful art and lighting design is a wonderful gift. From those pictures, it definitely looks like you've got a promising future in it. I wish I could see more of the in-show pictures. I wish I had more in-show pictures of my own productions. (When I'm tired, apparently I like to ramble!)

Okay, seriously leaving now. Good luck in your endeavours, glad to see there are some up and coming designers (I talk like I'm old...) that are out there. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy... or something.

Randy Braunm
-Freelance Lighitng Designer
 
Randy,
Thanks for your reply to the post, I appreciate all of your responses and I'm sure all of us can identify with everything you had to say! Sorry it taken so long since your post for me to reply, I've been busy (and maybe a little lazy too :p)!

The last three weeks of the school year here I was doing the lighting design for two consecutive dance recitals, the first shows I have ever done the lighting design completely on my own. The dance recitals are done by two "competing" dance studios in our community (the first of which is the better one in my opinion, though they both have their own pros and cons). For the first show we did something really different, atleast in what I've done before. We took down five of our striplights and put them on the floor shining up at the backdrop they set up; the backdrop was just a bunch of white fabric pinned to a base backdrop in all kinds of fancy and decorative swags or whatever you want to call them. The last row of striplights I shined on the backdrop as well, so we could alter the colors between the top and bottom; it created some really, really cool three-dimensional illusions, it was awesome! I ordered a video from the show so hopefully at some point I will be able to get some pictures from the performance up on my website.

In response to what you said about the SF PARs I definitely agree distance plays a very big role in addition to the lense. For Guys & Dolls I used a PAR on one of the Havanna wagons and it looked really good. For the dance recitals I actually altered the design and used Elipsoidals for the zones across the front of the stage, as I didn't like the way the PARs looked for the same purpose for Guys & Dolls. What I did was use the PARs for all my washes, four lights to a wash, but I also tried the Wide Flood lenses in the fixtures... I think the next show I'm going to change them back to Medium Floods; they didn't look bad but I think they are just too wide for our stage and I got a lot of extra light I didn't want on the surrounding wall so I had to keep intensities of the washes a little lower... They really had to stay lower though because of the shadow caused across the backdrop from the Grand Teaser... I HATE that shadow!!! Another thing I will change next show: When I focused the ellipsoidals for the zones across the stage I did it with the Grand Curtain closed, so I could make all the ellipses even across the curtain and what not... but I think it would have been better to do it with the curtain open, so the light blended farther backstage a little better. Just another thought.

The other thing I did with the dance recitals was I added more sidelight than I have used previously; on four arms that dropped some lights closer to the stage on each side, and on two trees at each corner of the stage. The system we developed to help the lighting go as smoothly and as easily as possible was this; I sat down with the director of the studio and we decided where she wanted special pools of light, for entrances, for focal points, etc... so we came up with six major zones on the stage, Right, Center, and Left, (Up and Down Stage). That way she knew what specials she had available for her entrances and exits in her dances and we didn't have to try and custom tailor the lights to every dance etc.

I thought your comments about not having to leave an area dark to remove focus were particularly helpful. If there is one thing that I found the most difficult with doing a lighting design on my own it was definitely, WITHOUT A DOUBT, COLOR SELECTION! Color selection was the hardest part of the entire process. I like the idea of washing the stage in a color and emphasizing an area with a more intense color, but still the same as the whole stage in terms of warmth or coolness. I've been told that having a warm and cool color for each space I light is important and that is the general rule I follow with every area I light, but when I have to start combining those colors with more colors I find it really hard to pick which colors to put where... especially because for the dance recitals there were no props... so it was basically like lighting an empty stage. What I did learn is that lighting an empty stage is deceiving, because a stage is never empty... if there are no props it is especially important that when focusing, you have a person to stand in the light you are focusing, because the people, in this case, were the only "objects" if you will on the stage. The other problem I have, after having the problem with color, is with intensity... sometimes it was just really hard to gauge whether or not there was quite enough light on stage. Which brings me to something else REALLY ANNOYING; does anyone else have a stage that is not painted black? Our auditorium stage is like light hardwood... and it really makes it impossible to tell how much light is on stage because so much reflects right off the floor, it's like we light the floor more than we do anything else, it's really annoying!

I agree that focusing isn't necessarily the most important thing to making a good design, but I'm probably a perfectionist too, so I can focus something five times and still not really be happy with it. But you are right, altering intensity can give you alot of flexibility. I would also agree with your more detailed break down of the lighting process, I didn't include too much when I first described it. I definitely agree that all of thoes parts of the lighting process really blend together and one is never quite finished before the other begins, atleast that is how my experience has worked as well. I'm scanning through your message as I go so I can make sure I hit on everything; back to color again though I agree color is probably more important than focus though focus is important too and on that note I should probably expand my use of color and experimentation with color (and intensity)!

In response to your question; our entire system is ETC, 96 dimmers. I really like the board as it is really easy to use even though it isn't the first one I experimented with and learned on, but it is really easy to train someone on the basics if someone else has to run it. In early August I'm going to get the opportunity to go over to a neighboring school district and take a look at their system and help them out with trying to use their board, I think that their whole system, to my understanding is Strand so that will be a new experience. Our elementary school's auditorium is all Strand equipment but I haven't worked their with lighting and they don't even have a board, or the need to even touch their lights; the stage is SO SMALL it's ridiculous, and it is way over curtained for its size. As far as community theatre goes that is actually where I started working, at our local community theatre just volunteering, I've probably done maybe 20 shows there. That's where I started learning everything about lighting under the Tech Director there that does lighting and what not; they have an older style 36 channel ETC board... When our high school was renovated and got the new system I was the only person in the entire building, staff and students, that had any idea how to operate it. Since it was installed I have been doing all the lighting for basically every show in our school. :p I don't dislike community or high school theatre... I was paid for the first of the two dance recitals and I get paid once in a while if I'm brought in for emergency help at the community theatre, for the bigger shows it's volunteer though. I like the experience of both but I'm pretty sure that there is much to be explored beyond this.. possibilities I have even yet to grasp. :p I have to give him a call but the TD at the community theatre is going to arrange a visit to Glimmerglass opera house to take a tour and what not, they have over 200 or 300 lights or something like that, it will be a little overwhelming compared to what I'm used to. :p But not a bad thing! :p

I'm probably getting pretty long winded now myself! :p I do have some in show pictures I got after I posted those on my website... when I get them up I will post a new message here to them so people can check them out. I noticed you said you were a freelance lighting designer, how does that work versus or compared to working only in one place as a lighting designer? Do you ever find yourself in competition with lighting designers that are hired steadily in one place? I don't know how much of an upcoming lighting designer I am, I really like it but it seems like it can be a very difficult lifestyle too, I know I don't really want to be on the road so if I did pursue it I think I would probably work in theatres and not with a traveling band or something like that... probably anyway... but I don't really know if that is what I want to make my career... I definitely have a good start if that is what I choose but I still don't know, and I feel like I'm supposed to be deciding very soon. :-O Thank you for your post though! It was very interesting and I look forward to your reply, hopfully I won't take nearly as long as last time to respond! :p
 
Does anyone know if it is possible to or how to capture photos from a DVD? I have a DVD of Guys & Dolls and I was wondering if this was in any way possible? :? Thanks!
 
The only way that I have been able to do this is by taking a screen dump (pause the DVD and locate the desired frame) and then exporting that into photoshop.

I tend to increase the res and also hide the task bar/tool bars etc to give me the largest image possible.

May not be great depending on what you want to do with it.

Hope this is of help
 
Isnt there software that takes screenshots of dvd's... maybe DivX or something, i dont quite remember? alternativly as Mayhem said... Screen dump!
 
I tried doing what Mayhem suggested; just pausing the DVD and taking a screen shot... but when I pasted the screen shot in Photoshop the DVD window didn't show the image from the video, it was just a blank black screen, everything else from the desktop appeared normally. It essentially looked the same way when I pasted that it does on my monitor when I export the monitor image to a TV; you can specify which place, the monitor or the TV, that you want video and what not to show up, so if you specify the TV on the monitor it just shows a black window where the video is playing. That is what it looked like when I pasted into Photoshop. I haven't heard of any software that does this.
 
I use Power DVD to play my DVD's on my PC (Monitor only - not to a seperate TV screen).

Try using Alt + Print Scrn rather that just the Print Scrn button and see if that helps.

If not, you could always stick the monitor face down on a scanner :)
 
I've tried Print Screen, Ctrl + Print Screen, and Alt + Print Screen with no luck, I guess I'll just have to use the pics I already have, unless I take Mayhem's suggestion and try and flip my monitor onto my scanner but I don't think it would work out too well. Thanks for your help!
 
My only other (serious) suggestion would be to do a Google search or hit Tucows (www.tucows.com) to see if there is any freewere or shareware that may be able to do this for you.

If you do find somethig - punch the name of the program into Google and see if there are any reports of it being spyware etc.

Hope that this does help.
 
Mayhem, I did some searching but didn't really find anything for what I was looking for, thank you for your help though! I did manage to get 12 more pictures from the actual show online though; I've added them to the existing pictures if anyone is interested:

http://www28.brinkster.com/smatticus/guydol.html
 
VICTORY IS MINE! 8) That comment you had made, Mayhem, about PowerDVD didn't even register with me, I was on my laptop a couple days ago and opened PowerDVD and was looking at the menu thingy and there is a button to take a picture of the image, I was like, no way. 8O It works! I haven't even looked at resolution settings or anything yet, but it's looking pretty good. I thought I would just share this one happy moment with everyone! :lol: :D
 
What app did you use to make the plot? I've been looking for a good CAD program that is easy to learn just to do a basic, nice looking plot.

Huh, so its a thrust stage. That must be odd to do for a musical. I've only lit a thrust stage once--and it wasn't even a real thrust stage. In the small theater space, the director decided thats he needed more room for acting so brought the action out about 3/4 of the way into the room. I ended up needing to get PVC pipe (2 pieces, 1 inside of the other for added strength) to clamp on and wire into the ceiling to give me FOH positions.

It looks really nice though. 2 MAC 250's...... lucky.....
 
Maybe he means PVC pipes to hang fixtures from because directors decesion to push the acting space out futher. Or he may mean that he ran cables through the PVC pipe to keep things neat and tidy.
 

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