Hanging from a Chandelier

JVV

Member
Hello folks,
The high school I am TD at will be doing NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT this spring and I am concerned about the "hanging from the chandelier" moment in Act Two. Does anyone have advice on how to safely execute this effect?

What I don't think is possible is to have a custom built chandelier hung on a baton fly in and have the actress jump off a dining room table and swing. It seems to me to be dangerous, not only for the actress, but for the other scenery/lighting hung above. Not to mention suddenly adding 150lbs to the lineset.

Any other recommendations? I understand this gets into no amateur rigging discussions, but I thought Id see if anyone else out there has tackled this moment.

Thanks,
JVV
 
Yeah, sorry man but that's definitely in the category of "if you have to ask the question, you are not qualified to do it so don't". As Rick said, start with the fact that I can pretty much guarantee the manufacturer of your fly system says it is never to be used to hold people. The only way to do it safely is to hire a professional flying effects company (Hall Associates, Foy, or ZFX). It will cost several thousand dollars to do. If you get flack about it have the person call risk management to see what they say. You'll find that they not only say no way, but you'll have a hard time convincing them to let you do it WITH the help of a professional flying effects company.

Also, before anyone tries to pull it on you, it's NOT the same as rock climbing so you can't have "my uncle the rock climber" come set it up for you. There are deaths in school and church productions EVERY YEAR because someone tries a flying stunt with rock climbing gear.

If you have any trouble preventing this from happening let us know, some of our pro riggers around here have been known to be willing to call school principals and help you out saying... "I'm a professional rigger I do flying stunt work for _____... You should never allow this to happen at your school... The risk of serious injury or death is really high... etc." So if they ignore your warnings and try to do it anyway, let me know via private message and I'll see if one of my buddies is willing to help.

Finally I refer you to a very old blog post from Bill Sapsis who is one of the most respected names in rigging...

"~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
February 5, 2001
Memo from Uncle Bill: Flying People
What is it about the holidays that cause normal people to lose their minds?
Beginning in late October I start getting calls from community group technical directors, church deacons and high school music teachers who want to fly an actor in their holiday show. Invariably, the first thing out of their mouths, after they tell me what they want to do, is "but we don't have much money so it has to be cheap." These are intelligent, responsible people. People who probably pay their taxes on time, get regular dental check-ups and wear their seatbelts even when driving just two blocks away. What on earth would lead these fine upstanding citizens to believe that suspending their children from little ropes and wires over a stage for cheap was a good idea?

"We're only going to be lifting her 6' in the air" they say. "Fine", I respond. "Why don't you stand on top of a 6' stepladder, jump off and land on the base of your spine to see what it feels like. Then tell me if you want your kid in that position." Sometimes that gets their attention.

I hear it all. They want no supervision. They want me to sell them some rope, a pulley and a cheap harness and turn them loose on the Peter Pans and flying angels of the world. I have the same answer for each and every one of them. No.

People think that just anything tied around a person will work as a flying harness. They trot off to Home Depot looking for a 'safety harness'. The ever-knowledgeable salesperson (at Home Depot?) simply stares at them of course, not having a clue. That's when they call me. When I explain that all I carry are Fall Arrest or climbing harnesses, they ask if they can alter one of those. I tell them no and explain why these harnesses will not work; the harnesses aren't designed for this type of stunt nor do the manufacturers warrant their use in this manner. Then I recommend that they talk to one of the companies that makes flying harnesses. "Those people are too expensive", I'm told. Oh. What do you think that 6' fall is going to do to your kid's spine? Is it worth putting them in a wheelchair for life because you were too cheap to get the right harness? Some of the parents even listen at this point. For the others I move onto my next argument.
Experience. There's a difference between the bookkeeper that volunteers to run the fly rail once a year at the church pageant and the professional who's been running a fly system for years. That difference is, among other things, focus. Let's look at a possible scenario. Poindexter, the volunteer is running the rail. He is 17 and a senior in high school. He has a girlfriend, and she just walked backstage to chat during a rehearsal. Is this kid giving his total attention to the show or is he showing off for his girlfriend? Go ahead; think back to when you were 17. Right. He's more easily distracted because he's in unfamiliar surroundings and he doesn't really understand the repercussions of a mistake. Amy, the professional, does know what happens to someone dropped from 6' or run into the wall. She also knows that she can wait and take her boyfriend out for donuts after the rehearsal.
The professional also knows when to call it quits. When a flying effect works, amateur directors tend to act like they invented it all by themselves. They want to do it everywhere and all the time. Flying is an extremely tiring job, both for the performer and the technician. You've got to know when to draw the line and stop working before someone gets hurt. It's also smart to understand that not everyone in the cast has to fly. Cap'n Hook, played by somebody's paunchy dad, never looks good careening around on a wire.

Eventually I get through to most of these folks and they either call in a professional or don't do the gag. But I'm willing to bet there's plenty of others who don't bother to call and are blithely flinging their kids around a stagehouse. If you happen to know anyone like that let him or her know just how foolish their actions are and try to get them to stop. It'll be your good deed for the week.

Tsin yea quai la
(Happy Chinese New Year)
Be well & be happy
Bill"
 
SO everyone... let's try to help generate some ideas of how to simulate the look safely without spending a lot of money.

Note: This show just recently became available for production so there may not be many, if any who have done it. I've never seen it or heard of it being done anywhere in this area. @JVV Perhaps you should describe to us what the script says happens.
 
Totally ignorant in this field, but what if a set piece was built so as support the Chandler and the actor. The Chandler is hung from it and the actor grabs and swings. Would this be ok if the actor is no more than 4" from the ground? Make a big deal of it in the staging, maybe use a tight followspot and a sudden lights change

Sent from Taptalk for Android, this was.
 
Thanks for you're willingness to engage in a conversation about this moment. Id like to think I am doing my due diligence in researching this effect instead of trying to tackle it on my own. I have been in touch with a regional theater that rents the touring set (alas, unavailable for our production dates!). I have also called the big flying companies to see if they have had to help with this effect yet, and none have. I am in the process of getting quotes from them to come out to NJ and help us rig this. (I have a good relationship with one of them having done Pater Pan, Beauty and the Beast and A Christmas Carol which all included flying effects). The director and choreographer are not opposed to bringing in the big guys, they just wonder why its necessary if the actress is briefly swinging left to right over the table and not harnessed in.

For those not familiar with the show: During Act II, scene 2 we fly in a Dining Room wall (with two doors) and a Chandelier over the dining room table, a character gets drunk and climbs on the 32" tall table. The 66" actress reaches up and grabs the the chandelier (hung at roughly 102") . She leans to the left, then leans to the right, then picks up her feet and continues to swing side to side before she is helped down. Its not a wild swing across the stage, just enough to get the idea that she is not in control of herself anymore, maybe 24" in each direction. This is how the choreographer describes the moment.

At this point in time I am still gathering research and ideas about how this has been done in other productions (if anyone out there has even attempted it yet) and support for the idea that yes, we do need to bring in outside help for this production as we have in the past.

Thanks all for your time and ideas.
JVV
 
Totally ignorant in this field, but what if a set piece was built so as support the Chandler and the actor. The Chandler is hung from it and the actor grabs and swings. Would this be ok if the actor is no more than 4" from the ground? Make a big deal of it in the staging, maybe use a tight followspot and a sudden lights change

Sent from Taptalk for Android, this was.
Im not sure if I have the backstage real estate to make this a stand alone unit. I am hoping to fly the chandelier in for this moment only.
 
I always ask "is this effect absolutely necessary to propel the story forward?" It's a discussion to have with your director at any rate. If the point of the gag is to illustrate the fact that the character is drunk and not in full control of her faculties, there are plenty of alternative choices that will not put an actor's safety at risk. I agree that to perform this gag safely, the pros should definitely be called in, but is the additional cost/time to do it right going to pay off to justify this choice?
 
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I always ask "is this effect absolutely necessary to propel the story forward?" It's a discussion to have with your director at any rate. If the point of the gag is to illustrate the fact that the character is drunk and not in full control of her faculties, there are plenty of alternative choices that will not put an actor's safety at risk. I agree that to perform this gag safely, the pros should definitely be called in, but is the additional cost/time to do it right going to pay off to justify this choice?
Yeah, we had that conversation. Its, apparently, the iconic moment of the show. They would hate to loose it, but of course, safety first.
 
Really... that's all. The actress could stand on the table, grab the chandelier and sway back and forth, leaning all over the place without taking her feet of the ground and 99.9% of the audience would be perfectly satisfied.

Turning on the bat signal for a comment from one of our resident riggers: @What Rigger? @porkchop @egilson1 Do you guys have any ideas for how to do this safely without a pro? I'm guessing no... but doesn't hurt to ask.
 
I agree with gafftaper, you could just eliminate the picks up her feet part. With the right acting, it could read just as drunk/out of control as hanging from the chandelier.
 
It's hard to form a good opinion of the options without knowing more details such as what is above the stage to rig from. I can tell you that in the world of "people flying" there is a bit of distinction between when a performer uses their own strength to hold onto and swing on an object versus creating the illusion of someone flying.

I'll have a conversation with a good friend of mine who is well versed in the flying FX world and see what direction they would go in.
 
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I imagine that the chandelier could be rigged to be raised/lowered with the fly system for scene changes, but supported with dead hang rigging when lowered for safety. Still would need a professional rigger, but possibly not professional flying people run crew.
 
Break the problem down. You've got a couple different things going on here.
I certainly wouldn't trust anyone to swing from anything currently in our prop shop, or any standard chandelier. So you need it stronger. Does it have to light up? Etc.
Still would need a professional rigger, but possibly not professional flying people run crew.
I'd lean towards something like this, but still check with the flying guys. I've only worked with one of the flying crews, but from reputation around here they all seem like good guys who won't try to oversell you.
  • How to let the actress safely swing around.
Since the range of swing is limited and she's only 32" off the ground, could the fall danger be mitigated by padding the table/surroundings? Put stiff gymnastic mat on the table, cover with tablecloth (securely fastened everything so nothing slides around). Along with the other actors there to spot her (pretending to stop/catch her), this might be enough that I'd OK it. Of course, that depends on a hundred other details that only you have- spotter size, other set pieces nearby, table construction, swing length, costumes, blocking, actor age & maturity etc. Still err on the side of caution, of course, and make backup plans for if someone misses a cue, etc.
 
Since the range of swing is limited and she's only 32" off the ground, could the fall danger be mitigated by padding the table/surroundings? Put stiff gymnastic mat on the table, cover with tablecloth (securely fastened everything so nothing slides around). Along with the other actors there to spot her (pretending to stop/catch her), this might be enough that I'd OK it. Of course, that depends on a hundred other details that only you have- spotter size, other set pieces nearby, table construction, swing length, costumes, blocking, actor age & maturity etc. Still err on the side of caution, of course, and make backup plans for if someone misses a cue, etc.

No.

A 32" fall for a 5' tall person is an 8' fall before the head hits the ground. A fall onto someone else could easily break bones or worse in both people. If you are not in control of every variable, then the situation is not safe. "might be enough that I'd OK it" is a safety compromise, not a safety standard. We need to live by standards. I understand the temptation to try it yourself... I got away with a terribly dangerous home brew solution to flying the hot air balloon out in Wizard of Oz 20 years ago. But the only safe answer is she keeps her feet on the table top or you hire a flying effects company.
 
I realize I missed saying it in my post, but I completely agree with those above that she should just leave her feet on the table.

However, even if she's still touching the table, is there still the fall risk if she's on a table swaying around? From the discussion above it sounds like even with the flying rig her weight would be supported by the chandelier, so the rig is just to catch her if she falls.
At what point then does standing on the table become dangerous enough to warrant the extra protection? I realize that this isn't an OSHA situation, but they say 4'.

Rather than my proposal, are there other steps that could be taken?


Note: I'm not the original poster, and not actually doing this. It's not even my division or department where I work. I'm just trying to further define some of the concepts at play here, for the education of myself and the public. If I'm wrong, please correct me! If someone corrects me, listen to them rather than me.
 
The way I see it the options are as follows:
  1. Explain to the actor that the chandelier and rigging it is attached to are not designed to bear their weight. Actor remains stainding on table swaying while holding chandelier and acting as if it is bearing a signficant portion of their weight. Fly system is balanced for the weight of the chandelier (or slightly arbor heavy, but not compensating for weight of actor).
  2. Hire a competent rigger design and install a system including chandilier designed to support a person hanging from it. It is possible that such a competent rigger could design a system that is dead hung in nature, but allows the fly system to move the chandilier into fly space for scene changes. In this case, I'd probably also follow the recommendation to pad the table top in case the hanging actor's grip slips. Give the actor plenty of opportunity to practice hanging from the system to ensure that they are comfortable with it.
  3. Hire a flying effects company to manage this effect.
Option 1 is simplest, cheapest, and seems adequate to convey the intention of the script as I see it. Option 2 could make the show a little more exciting, but probably would not provide the right cost/benefit for most companies. Option 3 is likely appropriate for top tier touring shows.
 
Thanks for you're willingness to engage in a conversation about this moment. Id like to think I am doing my due diligence in researching this effect instead of trying to tackle it on my own. I have been in touch with a regional theater that rents the touring set (alas, unavailable for our production dates!). I have also called the big flying companies to see if they have had to help with this effect yet, and none have. I am in the process of getting quotes from them to come out to NJ and help us rig this. (I have a good relationship with one of them having done Pater Pan, Beauty and the Beast and A Christmas Carol which all included flying effects). The director and choreographer are not opposed to bringing in the big guys, they just wonder why its necessary if the actress is briefly swinging left to right over the table and not harnessed in.

For those not familiar with the show: During Act II, scene 2 we fly in a Dining Room wall (with two doors) and a Chandelier over the dining room table, a character gets drunk and climbs on the 32" tall table. The 66" actress reaches up and grabs the the chandelier (hung at roughly 102") . She leans to the left, then leans to the right, then picks up her feet and continues to swing side to side before she is helped down. Its not a wild swing across the stage, just enough to get the idea that she is not in control of herself anymore, maybe 24" in each direction. This is how the choreographer describes the moment.

At this point in time I am still gathering research and ideas about how this has been done in other productions (if anyone out there has even attempted it yet) and support for the idea that yes, we do need to bring in outside help for this production as we have in the past.

Thanks all for your time and ideas.
JVV
Definitely use that previous connection with the flying company. Figuring this stuff out is what they are for, and I've never known a flying director who wasn't at least curious about how to make a new or uncommon gag work.
 
keep the feet on the table, reinforce the table, reinforce the chandelier to fully support gag and dynamic loads. pull focus to the chandelier and upper torso. loose items on the table could be pushed off and crash onto floor to add to the mayhem, but keep a pathway clear for egress.
 

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