Control/Dimming Hard-wired DMX, or Ethernet and nodes?

[JChenault]

I am working in a theatre which is currently two universes. We are planning on getting some new fixtures which will push us in to three universes.

The question - is it time to consider going Ethernet and nodes OR should I just run another DMX cable from the booth to a splitter?

If I want to go Ethernet what are the options.

Any advice, thoughts, or horror stories would be appreciated.

 

[theatricalmatt]

Unless you're really strapped for cash, i would go for Ethernet (Cat5) and nodes over an optosplitter any day of the week.

The cash difference isn't tremendous, but the opportunity to add an entire universe, assuming your board is capable of it, is tremendous. Nowadays I plan on a full universe per position, even if I only plan on a few fixtures there. A profile fixture easily eats a footprint of 20 addresses; moving lights far greater. A full universe per position means I'm less likely to run out of addresses, or worry over which personality to use.

Two-output nodes greatly reduce the need for optosplitters, too.

 

[microstar]

You can buy a 4-port node for as little as $370 (Obsidian Netron) or an ETC Response Mk 2 for $876. Also Swisson and Pathway make 4-port nodes.

 

[MRW Lights]

Bigger question... what's your console and what's your output now and what happens when you want the next universe or 4 more universes?

 

[sk8rsdad]

DMXKing 4-port is $299 MSRP.

 

[rsmentele]

My default is ethernet and nodes at this point. Price may be a little more expensive, but the flexibility and future proofing is worth it in my mind. Or, you could always run the Cat5 now, and use it to send DMX signal until you have funding for the nodes. Cat5 cable is MUCH cheaper than DMX. No need to run Cat6, save the money, we dont use the bandwidth.

 

[Lextech]

No matter what you do, if you are going through the trouble of running a single cable, run two or three. Cable is cheap compared to labor and you will use the extra lines sometime. I will say that at this point I would run CAT 5e at a minimum instead of DMX. Everything in our industry is headed in that direction. I have multiple cat 6 and fiber lines all over my theater. Every location had at least one spare CAT 6 and most had a spare fiber pair. I have used almost every spare line at this point. Tomorrow I am pulling two more CAT6 lines to one location where I need one more and there is no good place to place a switch.

 

[RickR]

Do you have any other uses for the network:
Move console around?
Wifi remotes?
AV uses? would require a Good Switch!
Designer/SM displays?

Networks are significantly higher tech so can be difficult when troubleshooting. POE switch and nodes are huge time and trouble savers.

 

[danTt]

I'd also investigate your current cabling. It may well be cat5 carrying DMX, just requiring retermination to carry Ethernet signals. You might also just be able to add one or two universes on the dead pairs of current cables.

If I'm investing in new infrastructure it's not going to be hard-line dmx at this point, unless you're still using an expression or similar as a console where Ethernet distro isn't built in. You dont want to make this post again next year.

 

[JChenault]

Thanks for the thoughts

to address comments

we currently run two universes from an Ion XE. our dimmers are ETC smart back / smart bars. We run both circuits do fleenour splitters, then cable to movers, leds, dimmers, etc. If we do go the DMX route for the third universe we will certainly run a fourth at the same time

the board does move during tech. Does that mean I run a separate cat5 from booth to board and a hub in the booth? That’s my assumption.

thanks For the comments

 

[tjrobb]

Depending on how far your booth is, and if there's an opening to the house, you might just build an uber-long cable that you use when the board travels. Unplug board and normal cable, park board in new spot, plug in uber cable. (Über kabel?) It's what we did before our reno gave us a permanent plug area.

 

[Crisp image]

Of course the output of the Xe is based on addresses and not universes as such so you can have 10 universes if you want but you might not have 512 addresses available for use in each universe allocation. so if you had the 2048 address version then 10 universes at 204 address each would work.
So Ethernet looks like the way to go from my perspective although I have never used it because the venues I work have small rigs and hard DMX lines. Nodes allow better flexibility.

My thoughts and no small animals were harmed while forming them except for the chocolate frog!

Regards
Geoff

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Our house has been 1-uni DMX for 12 years.

Last year (well, the year before), our capital funding included 6 4-port ETC nodes, which we put on our 4 electrics, and DSL/DSR to drive Color Source4's on our dance towers (these also drive WDMX to our box booms).

I'm damned, now, if I can remember how we set the port/universe mappings up, though I remember thinking myself pretty clever for the design -- I *think* the ones on the electric are 4-ports to a universe, and the ones on the deck are 1/2/3/4 - 1 universe per port, for flexibility... but I might have those reversed.

Functionally, though, they've been working fine. The POE switch that they all patch into is on a 3KVA UPS, so it will not be the thing that fails the rig in an outage.

And yes, the DMX cabling to our ETC dimmer rack is still copper 3-wire.

 

[CrazyTechie]

I didn't see this mentioned, but if you do switch to Ethernet, you'll need to plan for a different max cable run. Ethernet only allows for a maximum of about 300 feet over cat cable without using a switch or other magic to go further.

So, you may need to include more switches to get data everywhere you want.

If you need longer between switches, you'll want to pull fiber.

 

[JChenault]

I didn't see this mentioned, but if you do switch to Ethernet, you'll need to plan for a different max cable run. Ethernet only allows for a maximum of about 300 feet over cat cable without using a switch or other magic to go further.

So, you may need to include more switches to get data everywhere you want.

If you need longer between switches, you'll want to pull fiber.

300 feet is not an issue but thanks for the reminder

 

[almorton]

We have Cat5e outlets all over the auditorium and stage, some in dips, some by the electrics, some just in empirically convenient spots, and also several in the booth, terminating to a patch panel in the booth. Normally the two DMX outlets of the Ion are patched via adapter cables to two of the RJ45s in the booth and network 1 by a network patch cable. At the patch panel the DMX is looped to either DMX isolator/splitters, thence either off to the dimmer rack, or patched (using short adapter cables again) into any of the runs to drop DMX exactly where we need it on stage or elsewhere in the theatre. The network is patched via a short loop to the control network, for remotes etc. This also means that, when we take the console into the auditorium to plot the cues, we just run two DMX adapters and a network cable into three of the RJ45s in the auditorium, and re-patch at the panel, then the DMX and network is all back in place. If we need to add a node, we can just patch the other network outlet of the console to another RJ45, loop it in the patch panel, and connect it to the node which can be situated anywhere in the theatre. Very flexible. We've sent DMX, ethernet and whatever protocol the mixer's digital snake uses over the same cabling with not a glitch.

 

[MRW Lights]

Obviously this doesn't help / fit your current retrofit but.... I'm a little spoiled by my 4 year old build, where I have my own dedicated ETC Net Server Room with individual server size stacks with switches for all of my spaces with tie lines throughout my facility and across our campus. My main system is comprised of just shy of 500 nodes spread across 20 universes. All that's to say anything is possible and even though every time I think I couldn't need anything else, someone always wants to put a light where I don't have a patch/node/power..... a something. So plan what you want and prepare to be asked for everything else...

 

[sk8rsdad]

For futureproofing always pull the most recent, or maybe on generation back standard, so Cat6 or Cat7. Technology marches on. I remember working in a building that was so proud of all the Cat3 runs. Anybody want to try running gigabit ethernet on it?

 

[RickR]

The big console advantage to networks is not having to run lots of loose cables. You might get away without a 'hub' in the booth with a RJ45 F/F joiner, depending upon length and noise.

One net port (hopefully permanently placed) does all 64K universes, and you can have as many as your switch(es) can take. And they are either inputs or outputs. Multiple inputs for multiple DMX universes gets tricky!

 

[almorton]

Yes, that would be a massive advantage to running everything off the network , rather than individual DMX runs.