Hello everyone! New to CB and needing some help with Unison Legacy Dimmer.

zack.hinrichs

zack.hinrichs

Member
Hello folks!

Zack here, messaging you from Pismo Beach California! While I don't come from a theater or sound background, I do have some experience with Lighting as I used to work for an electrician. I am a Jr. High Pastor at New Life Church in Pismo. We are a fairly large church for the area and as it pertains to theater, sound and lighting, I have access to alot of gear. Alot of it is outdated and alot of it is fairly new! Anyhow, I try to familiarize myself with a little bit of everything, Lighting, ProPresenter, Sound. I've already learned alot just from reading the posts here and I'm looking forward to sharing my learnings here for those that could benefit from it. Thanks!
 
SteveB said:
Welcome Scott.

What help do you need with Unison ?
Click to expand...

So what I have going is this;

My current lighting set up is: A Congo Jr with a 2x20 universal wing. It is controlling a Unison Legacy Dimmer (old style with greyscale lcd and floppy disk) with goes out to 44 lights (mix of SourceFour pars and SourceFours). The board also controls a Smart Relay with Smart Link panel to control the overhead fluorescents.

My issue is; Our board was sent out for repair about 3 weeks ago, and in the mean time I wanted to control things with a laptop and usb to dmx dongle. I hooked up a Dell laptop running Freestyler and using a Kedsum Usb to Dmx dongle, the lights fired right up! But I noticed they were slowly pulsing from Fully lit down to about half lit, I figured this may have something to do with the fact that I'm using a Freeware and / or, my usb to dmx dongle is one thats more on the cheap side.

Also, I didnt know if something might be caused by the fact that I had to use a 3 to 5 pin DMX adapter cable to go from the dongle into the 5pin dmx feeding the Unison Legacy.

I would like to find a way to run our lighting system with a Mac and a good lighting software, since all our other gear is Mac, and ditch the Congo Jr. Board.

My questions are, what might be causing this pulsing of the lights?

Does anyone know a higher quality USB to DMX dongle like an Enttec might solve this?

Or maybe its a software issue?

I've contacted ETC tech support and they guided me through things up to a point, but of course, when I asked him about controlling ETC products with other 3rd party hardware and software, He would not confirm or deny its compatibility but simply recommended ETC products instead... which are more pricey compared to Enttec and he only recommended their Nomad software as a means to control it.

BTW thats funny you mentioned Scott

my name is Zack, but Scott is our main tech director who sent the board off for repair...
 
Your USB to DMX interface is apparently based on uDMX. uDMX interfaces suffer somewhat in that they are based on a microcontroller that emulates USB signals in software. They can be sensitive to the USB hardware on the host computer. It was designed during the days of Windows XP and most likely works best with that OS and platform. You might try it on an older laptop.

Since you mentioned Mac, there is lighting software called Lightkey that is based on Open Lighting Architecture. Open Lighting Architecture supports uDMX but it is not listed with the supported interfaces on the Lightkey page. It has a limited free version to try. I have only briefly played with it using a DMXKing interface.
http://www.lightkeyapp.com/en/

-MH
 
Hi there Zack,

My recommendation for DMX software:
-Enttec openDMX ethernet (is art-net, but the openDMX USB would be fine also)
-Enttec makes a great program called D-Pro. You can create shows, palettes, cue lists, etc. Is great for running luve stuff. It really works like a real console (has a command line, patch, all that good stuff).
-QLC Plus- great for quick checks, diagnosing issues and such but not so great (or reliable, for that matter) to run a show from.

Heres my take on lightkey. I used the trial for a little while and thought pretty well of it. So I bought the 512 channel license. Next thing I know (after spending hours making profiles for my moving lights and LEDs) whenever I would select a new gobo, it would keep the old one on and the whole program would freeze up (was running on a brand new MacBook pro). This was after it took me forever to get my interface to work with the program. I got in touch with the tech support and really didn't get anywhere with them. I ended up just getting a refund. I don;t mean to bash it, never used with conventionals but just sharing my experience.

You said you have 44 conventionals. Do you have any movers are have any prospects of purchasing some?

PS- let me know if you end up ditching your congo... I MAY be in the prospect of buying one ;)
 
I'm not a fan of PC lighting control because I grew up on physical faders. If you have a working console, especially ETC, it's likely to be more functional and reliable than almost anything else on the market. Congo throws some folks off as the 'language' is backwards, but it's very good for music. Some tips might make it work better for you.
  • Update the software. Congo has been re-designed to "Cobalt" and has many feature improvements. Software updates are free!
  • Get some good training on the board. There are online videos with workbooks and virtual stages. If you can see a trip to North Hollywood, ETC does a lot of training at their office their.
  • Cobalt software can also run on a Mac or PC, giving you off-line editing and several other fun tools.
 
I run a Jands Vista at my church with a S1 control surface. Its a little more on the pricier side, but I have found it to be a major upgrade from our old ETC Expression.
I have mine setup with a MacPro running the Jands v2 software, and then the Jands USB DMX dongle connecting the control surface to the computer, and then an Acer Touchscreen monitor along with an Acer monitor. The Jands interface is extremely user friendly and easy to learn and use. Shoot me an email at [email protected] if you have any questions.
 
Wow! Thank you guys for all your quick and knowledgable responses and Happy Thanksgiving!

Ok so, I should've also mentioned in my original post that I would also like be able to control my lighting with midi cues.

Pro Presenter 5 is the display software we are using. We are going to upgrade to Pro Presenter 6 which has a new feature; the ability to send midi cues out from individual slides, which can synchronize our lighting scenes with our display, thus improving our production value alot! This requires RenewedVision Media's Midi module software, a plugin for $100. Not bad

When I was on the phone with ETC tech support and trying to see if they would acknowledge that non proprietary 3rd party hardware and software would work, they did not outright say no but just recommended their following products to achieve what I'm shooting for, which is not really the route I want to go but here is the quote for amusement

1. That I download their Nomad software - free (but won't go "online" until it recognizes their next product which is...)
2. ETC Gadget - Universal USB to DMX Interface -$200 - pretty similar price to the enttec usb pro
3. ETC Nomad 256 Dongle - 256 Outputs - $480 - which my understanding is that this is required to "unlock" the cobalt software on mac to actually work
4. Show Control Gateway - $ 1,200.00 - This is what allows midi to communicate with the software.

Prices are from MGA out of Fresno CA. - So about $1880.00 total

again, not the route I was hoping to go, more thinking that if I got a higher quality DMX dongle like the Enttec, and a higher quality software, that I wouldn't experience the "pulsing" effect

I know for sure that my current setup; Freestyler on Dell laptop with Windows 7 and Kedsum usb/dmx dongle work in another venue we have, where i am controlling some cheap ebay LED cans, an Elation ED50 dimmer pack, and 2 Blizzard LED RGB Pucks...

...but its not jiving with the Unison Legacy and Smart Relay...

I like having the openness of non proprietary hardware and software,

Can anyone confirm any known setup where ETC products were able to be controlled with non proprietary stuff?

I'm leaning towards purchasing the Enttec usb pro dongle and trying it out, and if it doesn't work, then downloading a trial version of Lightkey per thetechmanmac and Mac Hosehead's recommendations and see if that gets me any further....
 
Noah Kimmel said:
I run a Jands Vista at my church with a S1 control surface. Its a little more on the pricier side, but I have found it to be a major upgrade from our old ETC Expression.
I have mine setup with a MacPro running the Jands v2 software, and then the Jands USB DMX dongle connecting the control surface to the computer, and then an Acer Touchscreen monitor along with an Acer monitor. The Jands interface is extremely user friendly and easy to learn and use. Shoot me an email at [email protected] if you have any questions.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your setup! I looked up some of the Jands stuff which is nice! unfortunately we're not in a spot to get whole new setup. But does your Jands setup have the capability to receive midi input? i'm curious about that.
 
Thetechmanmac said:
Hi there Zack,

My recommendation for DMX software:
-Enttec openDMX ethernet (is art-net, but the openDMX USB would be fine also)
-Enttec makes a great program called D-Pro. You can create shows, palettes, cue lists, etc. Is great for running luve stuff. It really works like a real console (has a command line, patch, all that good stuff).
-QLC Plus- great for quick checks, diagnosing issues and such but not so great (or reliable, for that matter) to run a show from.

Heres my take on lightkey. I used the trial for a little while and thought pretty well of it. So I bought the 512 channel license. Next thing I know (after spending hours making profiles for my moving lights and LEDs) whenever I would select a new gobo, it would keep the old one on and the whole program would freeze up (was running on a brand new MacBook pro). This was after it took me forever to get my interface to work with the program. I got in touch with the tech support and really didn't get anywhere with them. I ended up just getting a refund. I don;t mean to bash it, never used with conventionals but just sharing my experience.

You said you have 44 conventionals. Do you have any movers are have any prospects of purchasing some?

PS- let me know if you end up ditching your congo... I MAY be in the prospect of buying one ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your recommendations!

I'll definitely check them out!

Do you know if the Enttec openDMX USB and D-Pro would be compatible with ETC products?

I talked to 2 different tech support guys at ETC, the first one said the Unison Legacy doesn't care what is sending the dmx signal, as long as its receiving a dmx signal, it should be good.

The second guy said my Kedsum usb/dmx dongle may be the culprit...

at the moment, we don't have any plans on adding movers

Yikes on the Lightkey... I may have to look into something else!

and yea, if we get a software based system working, we may very well end up selling the congo jr, I'll let you know!
 
I definitely recommend Enttec products especially D-pro. I do believe it can accept MIDI input. The ODE is also pretty useful, because if you ever need to add another universe, just buy another interface! I also agree that your interface you have now is probably the problem. With some intefaces And you said you are on Mac, what model Mac are you using? Does it have an ethernet port?

Yes, the ETC stuff is pretty darn expensive. Plus, good luck getting it all up and working.
 
Hi Zack,
The Congo Jr. (Cobalt) supports MIDI In and Out.
Were you connecting to the Unison dimmers via DMX from the Congo Jr. or via ethernet (ETCNET2 or ETCNET3)? Do you have any other DMX boards to test the system with?
I can tell you that I have sent DMX to Legacy Unison systems from other manufacturers consoles without problem. There can be a number of variables that can affect the performance of the system.
Do the lights flicker when under the Unison touchpanel control?
Take care,
John
 
John Palmer said:
Hi Zack,
The Congo Jr. (Cobalt) supports MIDI In and Out.
Were you connecting to the Unison dimmers via DMX from the Congo Jr. or via ethernet (ETCNET2 or ETCNET3)? Do you have any other DMX boards to test the system with?
I can tell you that I have sent DMX to Legacy Unison systems from other manufacturers consoles without problem. There can be a number of variables that can affect the performance of the system.
Do the lights flicker when under the Unison touchpanel control?
Take care,
John
Click to expand...
Hi John, that's good to know that the Congo Jr. support midi in and out! I was not connecting to the unison from the Congo junior or ethernet, but through a DMX cable connected to my laptop. Our board is gone getting repaired right now, and I have not tried to control the lights from the unison legacy touch panel. But that's reassuring that you have had success controlling unison legacy with other manufacture products!
 
The control issue is one of meeting the DMX standard. Most gear does so these days, and it is all interchangeable. There are a few odd/cheap or really old bits that don't play well with others. It sounds as though your USB to DMX cable is one of them. It drives me nuts when a manufacturer can't follow a technical standard that's been well understood for over 20 years.

ETC gear works with other brands at hundreds of thousands of churches and theaters around the world. The techs can't recommend other brands or they wind up being blamed for its failures but very little ETC stuff is purely proprietary.

FYI Congo is also a major step above Expression, especially for LEDs.
 
Why do you want to ditch the Congo? In most cases, PC lighting control is a compromise if cost or other factors make a hardware console out of reach. I think you will have a more reliable and user-friendly solution if you stick with the Congo and learn to use it.
 
kicknargel said:
Why do you want to ditch the Congo? In most cases, PC lighting control is a compromise if cost or other factors make a hardware console out of reach. I think you will have a more reliable and user-friendly solution if you stick with the Congo and learn to use it.
Click to expand...
Good question! And thanks for responding! Well alot of the software interfaces I had seen looked more intuitive and easy to learn than the Congo Jr. Board. Since this is located in a youth center, high school students will be running it. Also, I sort of assumed that the board was outdated technology compared to software you could run on an iMac or macbookpro. But again, I'm a novice! It seems like high school aged students are more used to dealing with screens and software because of smart phones and all... Instead of boards. My other thought was that maybe I still use the Congo Jr board and control it through the usb port in the back, rather than bypassing it altogether... But again I have no experience with that.
 
One of the keys to school lighting is having good training materials available. You don't have time to teach the details of any console. So videos and printable tutorials are very important.

I've run many console classes that included HS students. Keep in mind that few students will have any idea of what a console is supposed to do, so relying on their general software skills is a dubious proposition. A full guide through what we are trying to do, and how to do it is golden. Without it they go into some corner and try to do everything with an inappropriate tool.
 
RickR said:
One of the keys to school lighting is having good training materials available. You don't have time to teach the details of any console. So videos and printable tutorials are very important.

I've run many console classes that included HS students. Keep in mind that few students will have any idea of what a console is supposed to do, so relying on their general software skills is a dubious proposition. A full guide through what we are trying to do, and how to do it is golden. Without it they go into some corner and try to do everything with an inappropriate tool.
Click to expand...
This is true! YouTube and Google is my first step when learning anything. There's so much information available to train students. The long term plan is to put on workshops at our church to teach the students how to program everything. My goal is to move toward a more automated service which requires less of student involvement for day of but more for the programming of lighting scenes beforehand.

Im more inclined to go with a software based system because, the little I have learned on PC based Freestyler program, it seems very convenient to program everything and, although a minor detail, the tech booth is less cluttered by not have a light board there, but to be completely fair, I have not given the Congo Jr the same amount of time to learn as I have Freestyler.

And gathering from what a few of you guys have said, it sounds like the Congo Jr is still very capable and not as antiquated as I thought.

I did go ahead and order an Enttec USB DMX dongle, so once that arrives, I will let you guys know if that solves the wierd light pulsing issue.
 
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