Control/Dimming Help me pick a console!

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by icewolf08, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. Vega

    Vega Member

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    I don't think that staying in the EOS line is necessarily better than going to Congo/Cobalt. Personally, I would stay with EOS - smaller learning curve - rather than go to Cobalt. Although there might be some educational value in having both an EOS and a Congo board if your students are going to be programming on both, if I were in your position, I would go with an Ion.
     
  2. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Staying in the Eos line is probably better in this case. First off, it is the same software as the Element you already own. that means you don't have to learn a new programming syntax. Secondly, Congo is discontinued, replaced by Cobalt. Cobalt is not really designed for theatre (neither was Congo, but some theatre people thought they wanted a Cue-Only desk for some strange reason).

    Which is besides the fact that that you have to stand on your head and look in a mirror to program Congo....
     
  3. Judge

    Judge Active Member

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  4. sully151

    sully151 Member

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    We are a small storefront that is just opening. We have a current total of 13 LED's and will expand as soon as we can. We had hoped to get by with our old Leviton N 7024 24/48 Channel board, but after having our lighting designer explain it to me, it seems rather impossible.

    So we have maybe $3k-ish to spend on a new controller that we can hopefully grow into as we expand.

    Someone in the past had suggested the Pathway Cognito, but i would like as many options as possible. I also saw that that console had many options and I am not sure what I would need and what would be overkill.
     
  5. Goatman

    Goatman Active Member

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    Given the plan of expansion and LEDs, I would say that there wouldn't really be too much that would be overkill. I would talk to your LD about ETC's Nomad option. It's pretty cheap, considering, and it's really powerful (the software is used professionally all over). You could also invest in a universal fader wing to include some more traditional handles. Maybe get the programming wing too.
     
  6. Jonathan Zhou

    Jonathan Zhou Member

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    Hi all i am new to this forum and pretty amateur with dmx programming and consoles etc.
    Read around here for a while and i am aware this might not be entirely the correct forum for it all but ill give it a try anyway!

    I work at a nightclub where we have slowly been renovating and upgrading whilst the nightclub being open for 18 month now. We have so far been running Lightjockey for the fixtures and Madrix for the led installation in the roof!
    But we are now feeling very limited by lightjockey and are in need of suggestions for upgrading the whole controlling part. During open hours we have a "lightguy" running lights by just setting of preprogrammed cues of scenes and strobing/blinding etc with a midi controller with pads however he is also a DJ and knows more or less all house music being played at the club (in other words he can time every cue and scene extremely well live) and willing to spend ALLOT of time to learn the new system.

    We have chosen to buy allot of our stage effects as knockoffs from chinese factories as we have found them to be cost-effective and they have had high enough reliability for our operation
    Our current rig is very much based on moving lights so it would need to be very flexibel and easy to switch forth and back between different scenes and maybe if possible adjust channels in scenes live such as dimming/color etc and also we are interested in chaser effects such as strobe chases.

    Our current rig is
    18x 5r sharpie beams (knockoffs)
    2x stage blinders (4 bulbs in each, dmx controlled)
    8x martin scanners
    9x Martin atomic 3000
    4x vertical led smoke machines
    4x bubble machines (controlled by power switchpack to dmx)
    3x antari smoke machines
    1x martin hazer (auto mode)

    On route to be bought in:
    3x elation sniper 2r
    2x b-eye effects (knockoffs)
    p6 led screens 36 pieces at 0,5m*0,5m to be spread out on stage

    I have discussed with both our in-house technicians but i am not sure they understand what i am looking for so id rather take second opinions aswell!
    Photo of the venue today: https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/h...063_674276022698730_2451986934597723901_o.jpg

    Some rough ideas what i want to achieve in the end (we upgrade every 6 month)
    Something like this with the beam effects (yes i know this demo is with much better robe minipointes)

    I am not sure if i managed to explain my "vision" of it all but basically you can say i take inspiration from larger festival like nightclubs and trying to bit by bit upgrade ourselves there!

    Budget is everything between 1000$-6000$ with the possibility to increase but then i would need to talk to the owner (I am more or less the venue manager though)

    Edit: What i missed was that we are ofcourse not sure if the best way is to get a console or a Pc controlled software with a wing or whatever. so all solutions are welcome!
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  7. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    I'd say an avo command wing paired with the expansion wing, should fit just in the top end of your budget.
     
  8. cbrandt

    cbrandt Well-Known Member

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    What module are you using to output dmx from light jockey? You should be able to use the same dongle to unlock universes in M-PC. It is worth giving a try to see if you like it better. That would give you an idea of how much you like the software, to see if it is worth investing in some hardware interface.
     
  9. Blackfaer

    Blackfaer Member

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    It's already competing with MA/Hog/Avo in Europe. Only in North America are we all freaked out by the RPN programming. The Congo/Cobalt is almost as capable as the high-end desks as a busking console for a much lower price. I'd gladly take one on tour or install one in a touring venue or anywhere where busking is the typical need. It also handles a cued theatrical type show more easily than most busking consoles, but it's definitely it's second function with busking as the primary.

    For the person asking about an educational setting getting a Cobalt instead of an Ion/Eos when they're already using an Element, I'd probably say keep with the Ion, unless you focus on the busking concepts of lighting in your classes. Ion's simply better designed for teaching theatre and will not be a challenge to switch between that and the Element. Cobalt's a whole different way of thinking about lighting (which I love) and as such requires the extra learning process. I don't know about you, but I don't have time to teach my students two different consoles to that level - if you do, and a busking desk (that can still do theatre) would work for your program, look at the Cobalt series.
     
  10. DuckJordan

    DuckJordan Well-Known Member

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    Anyone work with an avolites pearl expert? What are your thoughts on it, run mostly conventional with a few gigs a year running 8 - 24 automated fixtures. Easy to work with? This is for a rock and roll production company. I 99% of the time busk shows so physical handles are important to me and this console looks like it will work but would like some personal opinions.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
     
  11. JohnD

    JohnD Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    Since you mentioned a Pearl Expert are you considering a used console? Hopefully @techieman33 and @Pie4Weebl or some of the other Avo users will check in soon.
     
  12. DuckJordan

    DuckJordan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if used or new this is me doing research as a tech the owner will make that decision. We are an avolites dealer so pricing isn't a big deal I just haven't had my hands on one to play with yet

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
     
  13. TechGeek

    TechGeek Active Member

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    I work with a few people that use Avo Pearl Experts. Any Avo console would be great for your application of busking like that and using conventional fixtures as well.

    I myself am about to buy Avo wings for myself for all my small festivals that don't require a big board.

    Avo is a great system with a fast syntax. There's no enter or save. For instance if you change something in your settings you simply make the change then hit exit. Same goes for patch and many other things. I also love the effects engine and the recording styles you can choose from right on the screen. I also like that you can draw on your pallettes for gobos and positions, no more needing to read through text to see what is what. Download the software and play with it. You won't be let down by the power it holds.
     
  14. techieman33

    techieman33 Well-Known Member

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    I really like my pearl expert, it's a great desk. If your looking to buy new I would give the Arena a hard look as well. It only has 40 faders, but has the built in touch screens, and other features that the expert lacks. The expert was designed before they switched over from the classic OS to titan, so some things can be a little weird and there are often extra button presses involved without the touch screen and third attribute wheel. IMO if you want the extra faders and know your going to stay mostly conventional for foreseeable future then the pearl expert will be a great desk for you. If more and more moving lights are in the future I would take a much harder look at the Arena.
     
  15. Robert Rivera

    Robert Rivera Member

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    Etc Eos Ion I use that one at my high school it is small easy to use and portable....
     
  16. BRDinNC

    BRDinNC Member

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    ETC and Yamaha do not allow their authorized dealers to list pricing online of their higher end consoles. I know the Flag ship "EOS" console can ranges from $15K up and over $60K depending on how many universes you need to be licensed upon purchase. But it can always be upgraded at a later date.
     
  17. RickR

    RickR Well-Known Member

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    FYI: The flagship is now the "Ti", with the Eos name being used for the entire family. In descending cost order; Gio, Ion, Element, Nomad.

    Prices can be found for the last 3 but from if you need more than 1000 channels you'll have to ask for a quote. If you're spending over $10K on a console you'll want to know a lot more than the price!!
     
  18. Taylor Blais

    Taylor Blais Member

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    Hello all! I am in need of some help in picking out a lighting console for my church and what we will be needing! I do not know a lot about lighting fixtures and consoles, but I do know how to program and run shows on the week to week.

    Our church runs not just sunday services and the occasional middle of the week events and I am currently running an Element 40 (Funny that most of these conversations have been about the ETC line). Though we are running mostly source 4's, leds, and design spots, we are looking at the next 5 years where we can have more moving fixtures and beams. We do monthly events with 1000+ people and its a full concert setting. I have been running pretty much everything I do off cues, with the exception of our last event due to time constraints, had to busk the night. We also run a yearly conference where we have 5000/6000+ in attendance with large sets and guest artists where we are easily running 4 or 5 universes of fixtures. I ran a GrandMA dot.2 console this past year after only having 2 weeks of hands on time with it. I enjoyed the console one I had it all figured out and understood the tools I had to work with. Not to mention having the 3D software to plot out my space and fixtures so leading up to our Conference was a life saver in prep.

    Ultimately, I need help picking a console that will work for our weekly services that will allow me to play off cues, easily busk at anytime, great with running effects, contains a lot of room for multiple universes for future events and installs, 3D software to work off site with, and easy to teach. I am in the process of training people to be on my team, and in the case I am absent, having an easy to teach console so people can know how to do what I do.

    I like the Grand MA dot.2 since it walks you through the steps to set up a show quickly, gives you multiple layouts with its screens, the busking, the load it can handle. Using the master settings for effects is iffy to me, especially if I want to have effects stay at an unaffected rate through busking and cues (some things I may still have to learn). Either way, this console seems like this could very well adapt to our 5 year look out. What other consoles would you recommend to me with all this in mind?
     
  19. Judge

    Judge Active Member

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  20. NolanNolan

    NolanNolan Member

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    Small 200 seat venue, non-profit, mostly volunteer operated, wide range of bookings, wide range of requirements from 100+ programmed cues to managed with half a dozen subs to live on the fly to one light on a podium.
    All conventional incandescent fixtures - about 45 in use.
    Console is ETC Express 24/48 (we use 6 areas, so the x12 slider sections on the Express are awesome)
    48 dimmers in Four ETC Smartpacks
    50ish circuits

    The medium term goal is to begin switching to some LED fixtures (cyc/top lights/colour washes) for ease of colour changing and reduced ladder time, down the road maybe two or three moving lights as FOH specials (also to reduce ladder time). There probably won't ever be a budget to do an all at once conversion, so it will be piecemeal.

    A renovation project is finishing under budget and there are surplus funds to put towards lighting. Estimated $10-15k CAD.

    My thoughts are to upgrade the console as a logical first step, so looking for recommendations for a console that:
    1. Is not overly complicated to learn and use the basics. Sufficient physical sliders are important.
    2. Can easily control LED fixtures
    3. Can readily control several moving lights
    4. Isn't overkill. Something that fits the need rather than fits the maximum budget.
     
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