Control/Dimming Help me pick a console!

[sconosciute]

Hi. I was on the ETC website earlier today and noticed the "Show us your ETC" Contest, they are giving away an eos to the winner, and I was wondering if the eos would be right for my theatre.
We have a 345 seat Proscenium style theatre, 2 battens over the house and 3 over stage.
300 Dimmers/Circuits. We have 30 Source 4 Ellipsoidal Front Lights and 2 S4 Revolutions (Intelligent Lights). Over stage we have around 40-50 lights, a mix of Fresnells and PAR cans w/ 4 S4 Ellipsoidals.. Along the the side walls in the house we have 8 LED fixtures that color the walls.

I have no grand idea that we will for sure win a contest like this, but hell if I don't want to try!

 

[chausman]

Hi. I was on the ETC website earlier today and noticed the "Show us your ETC" Contest, they are giving away an eos to the winner, and I was wondering if the eos would be right for my theatre.
We have a 345 seat Proscenium style theatre, 2 battens over the house and 3 over stage.
300 Dimmers/Circuits. We have 30 Source 4 Ellipsoidal Front Lights and 2 S4 Revolutions (Intelligent Lights). Over stage we have around 40-50 lights, a mix of Fresnells and PAR cans w/ 4 S4 Ellipsoidals.. Along the the side walls in the house we have 8 LED fixtures that color the walls.

I have no grand idea that we will for sure win a contest like this, but hell if I don't want to try!

They are giving away an EOS line console, ie. Eos, Ion, or Element. That means that it might not be an EOS that you could get (unless you got 1st place).

I think an Eos would probably be overkill for the number of lights you have. An Ion would probably be more fitting for your theater. An Element might be more frustrating for you (from what I've heard).

(Ps, I'd change Intelligent Lights to Robotic Lights or Moving Heads or something similar, or DerekLeffew or another might throw a little fit (again)).

 

[sconosciute]

Also, Just noticed someone above dogging using Leviton/NSI boards w/ intelligent fixtures. I have a Leviton 8724GX 24 slider model. The board is amazing, we have two intelligent fixtures right now and I have never had a problem using them wit this board, and anything we have used with other lights (i-cues, scrollers, etc) Have always worked well.

And thanks for the advice, I'm hoping to upgrade pretty soon, but getting money from the district is nearly impossible and grants are hard to come by. I think I'd like to get the eos anyway, just for the shiny factor .

I'll keep that in mind for the future *I'd make it subscript but I don't know how on here*

 

[chausman]

I think I'd like to get the eos anyway, just for the shiny factor.
I'll keep that in mind for the future *I'd make it subscript but I don't know how on here*

If you must go for the shiny factor, I'd suggest waiting for the Gio.

And, click on BBCode below to learn about the subscript. And other tags you can use.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[erwaggoner]

I run a small children’s theatre. I must admit my theatre tech knowledge is very limited. Currently we do our shows in our high school’s mini-theater. The lighting system is very simple, three banks of lights controlled by a dimmer switches on the wall. I recently discovered a DMX input on the wall and was told connecting a light controller would override the wall switches. Since we are a small community theatre, with limited funds I’m considering purchasing a Chauvet Stage Designer 50 DMX Lighting Controller. I basically need to turn the lights on and off, adjust intensity, isolate separate or group of lights and pre-program the board so I can accomplish each change with a push of a button. Will this board serve my purposes? What are its limitations? If we move to a larger venue would this board still be useable or would I have to buy something more robust? If you believe this board is not suitable any recommendations that are not thousands of dollars.

TIA
Paul

Without knowing exactly what you are looking to do, the Strand 200 Plus console might be worth looking at, they appear to be selling for around $1000 right now. I have an original 200 series in our middle school theater and it performs very well for basic control of a handful of lights. It can output a full 512 DMX channels and supposedly can handle moving lights (I don't have any to try this with) although I imagine it would be difficult on this type of console. Just a thought...you can check it out at Strands website: 200 Plus Series Console | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand

Eric

 

[milan]

I run a small children’s theatre. I must admit my theatre tech knowledge is very limited. Currently we do our shows in our high school’s mini-theater. The lighting system is very simple, three banks of lights controlled by a dimmer switches on the wall. I recently discovered a DMX input on the wall and was told connecting a light controller would override the wall switches. Since we are a small community theatre, with limited funds I’m considering purchasing a Chauvet Stage Designer 50 DMX Lighting Controller. I basically need to turn the lights on and off, adjust intensity, isolate separate or group of lights and pre-program the board so I can accomplish each change with a push of a button. Will this board serve my purposes? What are its limitations? If we move to a larger venue would this board still be useable or would I have to buy something more robust? If you believe this board is not suitable any recommendations that are not thousands of dollars.
TIA
Paul

--
To be honest I've had nothing but problems with Chauvet. I don't know if it is their moving lights or ETCs console. We have had trouble creating a profile to get the Chauvet Legend 550 Spots and Chauvet QBeam 260 LED lights working. When we upgraded the board the profiles were finally added by ETC but still had some glitches in the software. It randomly turned on and off lights on startup. I don't know if anyone else has this problem but it is sooo annoying and will burn out my lamps quickly if it's not resolved soon. However, the ION is pretty simple to learn and setting up moving lights is not hard once you're past the learning curve. I love ETC products but think my theatre is cursed! lol
But, the ION has enough channels within its setup (mine is two universes of 1024 DMX channels) to handle most LED/intelligent lighting we will use. The other thing to consider when going to those is edison power available so you don't have to use up dimmers just to power your intelligent lights.

Otherwise, ETC Expressions have been rugged workhorses... with Congo/Eos/Ion being the replacement line. I've not worked with many others exept the Hog 1000. It was also a good board.

Best of luck choosing one! I agree with one of the other posters... Get a DEMO!

 

[FutureWeapons]

Hi,

New member here, registered after reading this thread. I'm looking at installing a lighting controller into a little rock club that has a small amount of lights and a budget of $1,000 (or less). They currently have the following:

12 Dimmers
1 Spotlight
1 Hazer

2 Martin CX2 scanners (8 channels total)
4 LED RGB fixtures (20 channels total)

Any suggestions on something incredibly simple to use? They don't have a lighting tech and will usually have whatever sound guy is working run it, although their main sound person is into learning lights too. I was thinking maybe a Chamsys Mini Wing attached to the computer in the booth or possibly ENTTEC DMXIS (since I can use it to write simple cues in advance and they can also learn to program it pretty easily) but they're a bit computer resistant so hardware-only might be better. I'm unfamiliar with hardware based controllers though so I'm hoping somebody here might be able to suggest something?

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[DuckJordan]

Hi,

New member here, registered after reading this thread. I'm looking at installing a lighting controller into a little rock club that has a small amount of lights and a budget of $1,000 (or less). They currently have the following:

12 Dimmers
1 Spotlight
1 Hazer

2 Martin CX2 scanners (8 channels total)
4 LED RGB fixtures (20 channels total)

Any suggestions on something incredibly simple to use? They don't have a lighting tech and will usually have whatever sound guy is working run it, although their main sound person is into learning lights too. I was thinking maybe a Chamsys Mini Wing attached to the computer in the booth or possibly ENTTEC DMXIS (since I can use it to write simple cues in advance and they can also learn to program it pretty easily) but they're a bit computer resistant so hardware-only might be better. I'm unfamiliar with hardware based controllers though so I'm hoping somebody here might be able to suggest something?

Thanks for any feedback!

Enttec DMX Pro, with Freestyler is what i have seen several smaller bar and clubs use for their package similar to yours.

 

[emoreth]

We're looking at the possibility of a new console this spring because our NSI MC 24/48 is having fits and may not be cost-effective to repair. Here are our considerations:

1) How easy will it be to train volunteers -- some with a little outside experience, some who have never seen a console -- to run a pre-programmed show?

2) How easy is it to run a show with MLs on the fly, if you know what you're doing?

3) Our shows are mostly church services, which have a pretty conservative look and can be run entirely from presets. There are some times, though, when we're busking rock shows in the sanctuary. Our system is not great for that now (30 ColorKinetics RGB bars as cyc lights, plus 4 Technospots and a hazer), but we're slowly expanding in that area. We need a board we can grow into, preferably with at least 3 universes to start.

4) We like the idea of having a couple rows of faders, so our green volunteers who are still scared of buttons can make adjustments on the fly.

Right now, we're primarily looking at the ETC Congo/Congo Jr. and Ion (with a fader sidecar). The Avolite Pearl and the Strand Palette VL are on the list as well. Something from Compulite is a possibility, but I haven't done much research on them yet.

This was not in our budget for the year, so we need to keep the numbers as low as possible without sacrificing functionality. Any ideas?

 

[chausman]

Ion with a few wings sounds almost perfect for that. It's very easy to teach and learn, and doesn't have a large amount of colorful lighted buttons to intimidate new users, and has some very powerful software.

 

[gafftaper]

We're looking at the possibility of a new console this spring because our NSI MC 24/48 is having fits and may not be cost-effective to repair. Here are our considerations:

1) How easy will it be to train volunteers -- some with a little outside experience, some who have never seen a console -- to run a pre-programmed show?
Right now, we're primarily looking at the ETC Congo/Congo Jr. and Ion (with a fader sidecar). The Avolite Pearl and the Strand Palette VL are on the list as well. Something from Compulite is a possibility, but I haven't done much research on them yet.

That's a tough order. Simple for someone who knows nothing about lighting but powerful enough to operate moving lights for a concert.

My two favorite ideas:
1) ETC Ion with a fader wing. You could keep the Ion out of the way when the beginners are around and just let them run the fader wing. But when you need it you have the power of the whole console. That's a lot less intimidating than a big console. The software is powerful and can handle your bigger events (it isn't universally accepted as a Hog or Ma would be to touring bands). ETC is the king of the market and the absolute best in customer service, however the downside is their consoles are a little less friendly to beginners than Strand. Get a demo in person

2) I'm a big fan of the Strand Palette series and their software in particular. I feel it's far easier to teach a new person than the ETC software. It's very "windowsy" feeling. Anyone comfortable with a home computer will quickly feel at home in the Strand Horizon software environment. I've taught a lot of students and they pick up the Strand really quickly. Don't worry about horsepower, the Strand software is both easy to learn and powerful. The biggest issue with Strand is their past reputation for bad customer service, there are many in the industry who will not buy a Strand console. However Strand has changed ownership a couple of times in recent years and I believe things have changed significantly. They treated me very well with my new console over the last 4 years and I have no reservations about recommending them. Still, they will never beat ETC in customer service and there are many in the industry who will not consider Strand because of that, I think they are making a big mistake. Get a demo in person.

I don't know a lot about the Pearl. Avo is huge in Europe and the rest of the world but it's a tough battle here in the US to find market share with ETC being so dominant. I know it's a good console and worth looking at. In a similar class is the Jands Vista. Another mega console manufacturer around the world, not as big in the US, but puts out great gear. Get a demo in person

The Congo is a great console but it's been snubbed a bit in the US lighting world because of its European style RPN programming syntax. I found it quick and easy enough to learn, however if you are dealing with tech riders and outsiders coming in this may not be the best choice. Get a demo in person

The best choice in terms of tech riders and acceptability to concert tours coming through would be to go with a Hog or GrandMA (neither of which you listed). The Hog and GrandMA are going to be the hardest to train on but provide the easiest use busking concerts. They are also probably the most expensive options on this list. Get a demo in person.

Compulite. Not to be rude, but are they still in business? It's a company which has been around a long time and was a player 30 years ago when the technology was first being created. However over the years they have been mostly forgotten. I haven't seen any of their new stuff and I haven't heard of anyone who owns one. They may or may not put out a great product now, I have no idea. My biggest concern with them would be to be the only one in town owning that console. There is definitely safety in the herd (ETC, Strand, Hog, Avolites, Jands, GrandMA).

No matter what you choose, get lots of demos in person!

 

[chausman]

Yes demos of everything. I guess anger question would be, what do other local venues have? What does your local shop have on hand that you could borrow I'd you have issues without having to convert file types?

 

[emoreth]

My two favorite ideas:
1) ETC Ion with a fader wing.ETC is the king of the market and the absolute best in customer service, however the downside is their consoles are a little less friendly to beginners than Strand.

2) I'm a big fan of the Strand Palette series and their software in particular. I feel it's far easier to teach a new person than the ETC software. It's very "windowsy" feeling.

The best choice in terms of tech riders and acceptability to concert tours coming through would be to go with a Hog or GrandMA (neither of which you listed).

I didn't list Hog and GrandMA because we don't host concert tours, just local bands working with our in-house crew. The only outside people who run our lights are from the company we'd be buying the console through, and that happens maybe twice a year.

Compulite was suggested to me on the basis of price by our dealer. I haven't seen anything in their lineup that fits what we need better than ETC or Strand, so unless the prices are drop-dead amazing, they're not high on my list.

Personally, I'm leaning toward the Congo (maybe Jr with a fader wing, depending on pricing) because A) I've heard it's easier to busk MLs on than the Ion and B) I like the fact that it's HTP and cue-only native, which is how our current board thinks. RPN is incidental as far as I'm concerned; if a volunteer can't learn it, they shouldn't be programming our board.

If we can set the Ion to default to cue-only and HTP, that'd make it a serious contender, but learning to think in tracking and LTP might be a bit too much of an adjustment for some of our volunteers who only run lights once a month.

I'm curious about programming language on the Strand consoles, but finding that out is what reading the manuals and getting a demo (in person) are for. Same goes for Avolite; I know our dealer has a Pearl on hand, so that one at least should be easy to arrange.

What does your local shop have on hand that you could borrow if you had issues without having to convert file types?

That is a good point. We've been lucky up til recently because our dealer had a spare MC 24/48. Unfortunately, theirs got rained on, so we no longer have an in-kind backup available for our half-mad piece of junk. It's a situation I don't like being in and would prefer to avoid with a new board.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

IMO, busking moving lights in a Cue only/state mode is the worst thing you can do to limit yourself. I think you should demo the Pearl, have someone train you in using it and you'll find its a very powerful desk.

 

[emoreth]

IMO, busking moving lights in a Cue only/state mode is the worst thing you can do to limit yourself.

In that case, either we need a console that can switch modes for rock shows, or I'll need to write a crap-ton of zeros into our standard cues so they can be run out of order.

I think you should demo the Pearl, have someone train you in using it and you'll find its a very powerful desk.

I'm certainly planning on that

 

[sk8rsdad]

In that case, either we need a console that can switch modes for rock shows, or I'll need to write a crap-ton of zeros into our standard cues so they can be run out of order.

Tracking consoles are smart enough to know what to do with unreferenced channels when jumping around during playback. When playing with multiple cue stacks, they will have some way to assert or allfade to deal with taking control of channels that are getting their state from elsewhere.

 

[nimblebrain]

i suggest a few guidelines for a buyer :
1- budget, be realistic and dont waste time ( yours or a sellers ) be honest, if you have 1 - 5,000 then you can access certain lines of product, 5-10k others and on and on. whatever your real budget is- tell the folks quoting you right up front.
2 - level of users. figure out how many diffrent types of users are in your venue operating the console- it might range from a really skilled tech whiz running a 300 cue show with movers and multi part cues, down to the janitor coming in to push up a sub handle to bring up house lights for cleaning. do they all need to access the console ? if so maybe you look at something very capable that still has some manual sliders.
3 - buy the " best " and " most " you can afford. dont hurt yourself in future by saying " we'll never need that many channels or cues" - cant tell you how fast you can outgrow a board, especially now a days. buy for the user 5-10 years from now. at schools especially level of expertise shifts with students and faculty.
4 - talk to people who similar venues types and sizes of venues that are using the console you are looking at - if your a school, ask the dealer or manufacturer for a user reference in your area, go visit and listen to what current owners like/dont like about the console.
5 - be concerned of who you buy from. look for a supplier who can provide drop dead overnight service or back up loaners. yes consoles fail, and always at the wrong time, i dont care who makes them, it happens. plan for it - also, buy from a manufacturer who has a service record - my simple test for owners is this...take the " emergency number for field service support " for the mfg that you are looking at, and call the thing at..oh say 7 PM factory time. see what happens, do they respond? does the dealer trying to sell it to you have an emergency number, and will they respond?
6 - get a demo, it your space. and make sure you push the buttons. have as many designers there and board ops ( past or present ) as possible.
7 - training. are there user forums or chats for your console ? will the dealer provide training broken into a couple sessions, a few weeks apart ? i always found this was more helpful - i would train users on basic features, navigation, how to write cues,subs,groups, how to playback and save and retrieve a show. then i would let them play with it for a couple weeks, go back and answer questions, as well as go further down into the operations. ask your dealer to do this. personally, i dont think anything above a two scene preset should be bought on line based on lowest cost... cause who's going to train you and service it, and bail you out willingly at 7:45 night of show?

hope this helps.

 

[Ingram]

Re: Console suggestions

what you guys think of the Avolite Titan Mobile, Martin M2GO and M2PC??

 

[emoreth]

Re: Console suggestions

I can't offer opinions on the Martin stuff, but I recently got a console that runs Titan and it's nice software, especially for busking.

 

[dantemclean]

Re: Console suggestions

I'm in a Nursery to Grade 12 school. Our venue is a gym. We are also on the road at least two or three times a month with the school band(s), so need portable and truck friendly.

Presently we have 4 fresnel (65Q), 2 Source4. Dimmers are Dove DM-406 (tempermental on road gigs and on the way out, hopefully). Our present console is a Lightronics TL-1608. The console is done--it has been crapping out during shows for several months, and at a show on Friday discovered faders acting up big time. (And, I _hate_ the thing ... so that does it!)

I was given go ahead to get quotes on new gear--I was not given any idea of budget, though. This is a wish-list only, for now. Need to move quickly, though! If we get it in on this year's budget, we might get it--they don't like giving extra budget back to the school division at the end of the year.

I'm looking at ETC SmartPack 12 channel + road case for dimming. I'm renting one for Graduation in 2 weeks anyways, we'll see how thing go with that.

We do not presently use movers, but I do rent things on occasion--and I think I want to leave that option open if we are getting a new console.

Needs: 16 channels or better, "bump" on each channel, programmable chase.

Console choice:

ETC ML or ETC 1296.

Any opinions on Zero 88 consoles?

Thanks!