Help Needed: No idea how school's system works.

[joshhealing]

Hello Everyone!


I am working a 6-week gig as a lighting designer for a production of Into The Woods with a non-profit theater organization. The program I am working for is operating out of a brand new elementary school theater complete with a new lighting rig of all etc ColorSource fixtures, a Strand Contact Dimmer Rack, a Strand DMX Distribution system (3 “Node 8’s”), and a Pathway Cognito 2 for the board. To connect to the system, there are cat5 patch points scattered around the gym (because it is a gym-theater combo) that lead to the distribution rack backstage.

The problem is, when I use the school's house board, with its default rep-plot file, nothing works. When I try to connect to the system with my ETC Nomad via SaCN and turn the first two universes' addresses at full, nothing works. The engineers were never taught how to use the system, the administration doesn't have any information about the system from the installation company, and they aren't getting back to me about the phone number or name of the company that installed this system, so I'm kinda on my own here.

Instead of using the Cognito, I am trying to use an ETC Nomad as my primary system over ethernet on my Macbook Pro. The Strand Node 8 system is set up for SaCN (not shownet), which I was able to figure out by calling Strand and navigating to the DMX Output section, and seeing they were all configured to receive SaCN. With that, it could very well be me not knowing how SaCN works and doing the wrong thing in my computer's network settings. When I open the SaCN viewer in the EOS software, it recognized and detected the Strand Node 8, but it didn't take priority over my Mac.

I’m just a little bit over my head in this situation. I understand “analog” dmx just fine, but this network stuff is way out of my depth, as only a recent high school grad.

Suspicion #1
I’m suspecting this might be me failing up to set up my SACN broadcast in the right way, might be doing the wrong IP or something, idk how that stuff works. Also in my “SACN Output viewer” in my nomad, it says that my Mac was "taking priority" over the Strand Node 8, which it is detecting. It could just be as simple as that.

Suspicion #2
There's a little box (pictured below) that the DMX runs through that has DMX universes 2-4 (labeled B, C, and D) on “panic mode”, because there is an orange light. But I’m confused because panic mode usually means that they would all be on?

I've attached pictures below of the dimmer rack and distribution rack. I’m also completely open to this being neither of these two things at all. Let me know if there's any other information you all need that I can provide. Thank you,

Josh

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Could you add a high-res shot of the switch and patch panel, and a pic of at least one wall jack you're trying to plug your Nomad machine into? That jack might not be connected to this panel...

Also: *always* enable flash on this sort of picture; it cuts the blur.

 

[Amiers]

How is Cognito wired to the rack. If it is with Ethernet then mimic the Sacn config on the console except changing the IP then throw a switch in the middle from the input of the console and Jack your nomad into the switch. You don’t need to know how the system works per say just have to plug into the right spot.

Also I’m sure the Cognito worked when they left. I would load show files from past shows til you find one that works. It sounds like someone just messed with something on the console making it not work.

As far as Sacn setup make sure your IP is in the correct range as well as the subnet.

We have Pathway people here but I can’t remember who is who so hopefully they chime in or someone else knows who they are.

 

[RonHebbard]

How is Cognito wired to the rack. If it is with Ethernet then mimic the Sacn config on the console except changing the IP then throw a switch in the middle from the input of the console and Jack your nomad into the switch. You don’t need to know how the system works per say just have to plug into the right spot.

Also I’m sure the Cognito worked when they left. I would load show files from past shows til you find one that works. It sounds like someone just messed with something on the console making it not work.

As far as Sacn setup make sure your IP is in the correct range as well as the subnet.

We have Pathway people here but I can’t remember who it is who so hopefully they chime in or someone else knows who they are.

Pathway/Cognito; isn't Rob Bell ("On a river north of Toronto") the designer, co-owner & brains at Pathway?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[John Palmer]

I am going to take a massive swing in the dark.
There are 3 x Node 8. That is 24 universes of DMX. The Emergency controller is only used to talk to 4 universes.
So, here it goes.
Universe 1 is the Contact relay rack
Universe 2, 3, & 4 are houselights. (Contact Rack has labels for HOUSE.)
The Color Source fixtures are in universes 5-24. I would guess that each position has its own universe.
The house lights are turned on by a "Panic" switch somewhere in the room. The rack is operating normally on U#1 because the switch that turns on the lights only has to talk to U#2-4. If the fire alarm went off, I am guessing that the U#1-4 indicators would change. BTW, the red conduit coming into the panel is most likely the fire alarm control.
So, to trouble shoot.
If you plug into the network port out in the gym, does the activity light on the network switch change? (This will tell you if you are making the physical connection to the switch.)
Do the Node 8's show what their Universes are set to? Are they 1-24 or are they being used as fancy network DMX splitters? (On an ETC Gateway, if the gateway is receiving valid sACN the universe number is steady. If it is blinking, it isn't receiving sACN for that universe ie. nothing is patched to that universe.)
sACN is a multicast protocol, so your laptop's IP shouldn't matter.
Do the fixtures have power?
Are the fixtures addressed?
Good luck,
John

 

[Rob]

Pathway/Cognito; isn't Rob Bell ("On a river north of Toronto") the designer, co-owner & brains at Pathway?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Seem @John Palmer has this in hand. Ping me if you have Cog issues.

 

[joshhealing]

Could you add a high-res shot of the switch and patch panel, and a pic of at least one wall jack you're trying to plug your Nomad machine into? That jack might not be connected to this panel...

Also: *always* enable flash on this sort of picture; it cuts the blur.

Hello Jay,

Sorry for the late reply, we are in the space on weekdays only. Here are the pictures you asked for! I hope it helps.

- Josh

 

[joshhealing]

I am going to take a massive swing in the dark.
There are 3 x Node 8. That is 24 universes of DMX. The Emergency controller is only used to talk to 4 universes.
So, here it goes.
Universe 1 is the Contact relay rack
Universe 2, 3, & 4 are houselights. (Contact Rack has labels for HOUSE.)
The Color Source fixtures are in universes 5-24. I would guess that each position has its own universe.
The house lights are turned on by a "Panic" switch somewhere in the room. The rack is operating normally on U#1 because the switch that turns on the lights only has to talk to U#2-4. If the fire alarm went off, I am guessing that the U#1-4 indicators would change. BTW, the red conduit coming into the panel is most likely the fire alarm control.
So, to trouble shoot.
If you plug into the network port out in the gym, does the activity light on the network switch change? (This will tell you if you are making the physical connection to the switch.)
Do the Node 8's show what their Universes are set to? Are they 1-24 or are they being used as fancy network DMX splitters? (On an ETC Gateway, if the gateway is receiving valid sACN the universe number is steady. If it is blinking, it isn't receiving sACN for that universe ie. nothing is patched to that universe.)
sACN is a multicast protocol, so your laptop's IP shouldn't matter.
Do the fixtures have power?
Are the fixtures addressed?
Good luck,
John

Hi John,

Thank you for your reply, it seems very promising. As of right now, what's adding to the complications of things is that the school doesn't have any way of getting up to the grid via lift or ladders (they don't have any ladders over like 12ft). We have a scaff rental coming in soon, so I will be able to check for addresses/power when those come in, but that won't be for about a week or so, so I won't have a definitive answer by then. I am going to try sending DMX to universes 5-24 to see if that does something, and if the lights turn on I will have to figure out the addresses by way of a very cumbersome channel check. I will keep you all updated. Thank you much,

Josh

 

[NickVon]

With the new building I'm in. That is all ETC. but could be a similar system. I have to tell the Paradym/ Unision system (houselight and panic, and entry control system) that I want to use the lighting console. Out system has a control in the booth that you indicate if you are using a LX console and it releases control of the system to the console from the entry switches. Does Your room have a similar panel? Could be a touch screen or just a button somewhere?

 

[John Palmer]

Hello Jay,

Sorry for the late reply, we are in the space on weekdays only. Here are the pictures you asked for! I hope it helps.

View attachment 22140View attachment 22141

- Josh

On the patch bay, there is no network cable from #7 (Console Receptacle Station) to the switch. In fact, a number of ports aren't connected. I would try plugging the Cognito directly into the switch and see if you get anything to work.
Once again a wild guess...the network patch cable was removed linking patch bay #7 to the switch so kids/teachers wouldn't plug into the port in the gym/theatre and mess things up.
Where are you located? Is there a local lighting vendor that might have done the installation that you could call for information?
Good luck,
John

 

[danTt]

I'm interested in something you said early on.

You said that you saw the node8 as a source in the sacn viewer. Did you see anything being output by it? This implies that there's something somewhere inputting dmx into the system, but I'm unclear what it would be based on your description. Can you share a screenshot from sacnview or the eos output viewer tab?

 

[MNicolai]

Re: Emergency DMX Bypass Unit
Is the Status light off or is slowly blinking a color. If so, which color?

If it's off, that's very suspicious. If it's slowly blinking green, that may not be unusual because the unit could be in Splitter mode, which indicates green for receiving DMX on the input channel and green-ish-red-but-not-red-but-not-fully-orange for outputs transmitting DMX. Not really sure based on that photo what you're actually seeing, between how orange/red may look similar in a photo and Strand's decision to use the indicator lights for multiple different purposes in a manner that requires a decoder ring to decipher. Assuming the status light is actually slowly blinking green and that your unit is in Splitter mode, there's likely nothing wrong with the emergency bypass/panic side of things.

In which case you may have an sACN and/or Vision.Net problem. I agree with @NickVon to look for a button or touch panel that may have a lockout option. You may have a portable station hidden somewhere as well that can plug into that Vision.Net jack which may do something also. With the Contact panel, somewhere there should be a button to turn those relays on/off and send power to the Colorsource fixtures. But you may have to manually trigger certain channels over DMX from Nomad/Cognito in order to turn those relays on. Certainly if your fixtures aren't getting power, you won't be able to control them.

Before you try getting Nomad working, I would try to get the Cognito console working. If that doesn't work, then don't expect to make much progress on anything else. I also agree with @John Palmer that it's suspicious that a few of your jacks in that network patch panel don't have cables connected including the "Console Receptacle Station". I would patch the empty ports into that network switch and then try the Cognito console. However --- if you're seeing the Strand node from Nomad, it's entirely possible you already are connected into the system and that you simply have an sACN issue.

I would probably go to Strand's website and download their PSN software (full product manual here) that lets you see what the settings are on their nodes, including which sACN universes are at play. If they are starting at sACN universe 2 (may be called "2 sACN" in Strand lingo, for example, then you want to go into Nomad's network settings and set the sACN Start also to "2".

Here's what this looks like in Strand's PSN software:

Universe 1 is down because it detected it earlier, then I logged out of Nomad, repatched my start value to "2", logged back into Nomad, and then in PSN hit "Detect sACN Universes' to refresh. You can see where Nomad it then coming in on universes 2 and 3, and Nomad's priority levels.

Then under Network Items, you should be able to to connect to your nodes. From their, you can see the outputs of the node, confirm they are configured as outputs, and see what their assigned Universe values are. By default, a Node 8 puts out 8 different universes. Realistically if you're in a gymnatorium you probably only need 1 universe of DMX for the stage fixtures. In which case you would set the sACN universes to all be the same value and then point your Nomad client to that universe #.

Please, if you log into the Strand Nodes in any way or start making changes, assume the responsibility of ensuring the Cognito console is functioning before you leave. It may in fact have never been patched correctly or you may be, unknown to others, killing its ability to connect to the system if you adjust sACN universes. For those who use the facility after you, please make sure you leave the system in good working order OR get the original installer engaged to rectify this so you don't take on the responsibility of any issues your actions may cause.

 

[joshhealing]

Hey All,

Long time no see. After I was able to fix the issue it was boots to the ground with programming and such, but here's the update. So obviously it's been 6 months and I am no longer working on that show, but I do have the answer to what happened in that theater. So on a phone call with ETC, because I thought it might be something wrong with my Nomad setup, because using cheap offf-brand USB dongles and such, a kind person at ETC helped me figure out the whole issue. We went into the setup menu of the Cognito and noticed that the DMX was offset to the 11th universe, so the entire time, I was in fact connected to the DMX node and I was just making the mistake of not patching everything to the 11th universe, it was a lot more simple than we thought. Super random though, would never have guessed that on my own, so I am very grateful the kind person at ETC and to all of you for your help on this issue, and the show ran smoothly afterwards. Thanks,

Josh

 

[TimMc]

Hey All,

Long time no see. After I was able to fix the issue it was boots to the ground with programming and such, but here's the update. So obviously it's been 6 months and I am no longer working on that show, but I do have the answer to what happened in that theater. So on a phone call with ETC, because I thought it might be something wrong with my Nomad setup, because using cheap offf-brand USB dongles and such, a kind person at ETC helped me figure out the whole issue. We went into the setup menu of the Cognito and noticed that the DMX was offset to the 11th universe, so the entire time, I was in fact connected to the DMX node and I was just making the mistake of not patching everything to the 11th universe, it was a lot more simple than we thought. Super random though, would never have guessed that on my own, so I am very grateful the kind person at ETC and to all of you for your help on this issue, and the show ran smoothly afterwards. Thanks,

Josh

Thanks for the update, Josh! Most of time we don't hear back and see if we're Gurus or chumps... glad there was a happy ending to your story and your show.

 

[Crisp image]

Hey All,

Long time no see. After I was able to fix the issue it was boots to the ground with programming and such, but here's the update. So obviously it's been 6 months and I am no longer working on that show, but I do have the answer to what happened in that theater. So on a phone call with ETC, because I thought it might be something wrong with my Nomad setup, because using cheap offf-brand USB dongles and such, a kind person at ETC helped me figure out the whole issue. We went into the setup menu of the Cognito and noticed that the DMX was offset to the 11th universe, so the entire time, I was in fact connected to the DMX node and I was just making the mistake of not patching everything to the 11th universe, it was a lot more simple than we thought. Super random though, would never have guessed that on my own, so I am very grateful the kind person at ETC and to all of you for your help on this issue, and the show ran smoothly afterwards. Thanks,

Josh

Ahh the old check the patch on the other console trick- Glad it worked out for you and you had the other console to work from to find your issue. Happy Days.
Geoff

 

[Jay Ashworth]

And you have just provided a case in point example of my favorite design/implementation rule:

The Principle of Least Astonishment.

"When designing and implementing systems, and a choice comes up ("what should the first universe be?"), choose the answer which any random well-educated guy motorin' in behind you would pick by default ("1, silly!"), absent a CLEAR, COMPELLING reason to do otherwise, AND IF SO, DOCUMENT THE DAMN THING.

That's your price for flight.



Hopefully, *you* put a piece of 1" white on the dimmer box saying, in black Sharpie, "Lights are in Universe 11"?

 

[NickVon]

I love me a good 6 month update! Huzzah!