Wireless Help selecting wireless replacements

[AudJ]

Finally able to get going on replacing my permanent install 600s mhz wireless mics in the Buffalo NY market. Currently have 20 AKG, and are replacing 5 of those. Of the remaining:10 are in the 500-530 band, and 5 are from 570-600. AKG Powered antennas and distro in place for all UHF frequencies. We would like space to expand, possibly IEM or other.

Based on software based runs, it looks like my best option might be to go with 5 Sennheiser units, probably A1 band, but might vary.

Questions I have are about which to purchase; ew100, 300, or 500 G3? Looks like I might be able to fund the 500, but There is conflicting information/opinion as to the need for them. Do they allow more units per band? Is there any other difference to consider if they don't move much?

Will my AKG distro, which provides power to the receivers via coax, also power other brands via coax (sennheiser)? It is all 12v as far as I can tell.

I should add that the $200 rebate on the ew500 makes it enticing, as I will be installing these and 2 other rooms myself.

Are there any other brands I should be looking at right now?

Thanks for any info.

 

[themuzicman]

The actual radios between the ew100/300/500 lines are all the same. Don't confuse programmed frequency banks with the ability to actually pack more wireless into the same bandwidth -- the ew500 just has more pre-programmed frequencies per bank than the ew100/300.

The difference between the lines is in the features in the transmitters and receivers. You gain an ethernet port in the ew300 over the ew100 so you can monitor from WSM, you also gain a headphone port on the front of the unit. I haven't been able to ever find an appreciable difference between the 300 and 500 - the 500 seems to have marginally better THD but it's so small as to be almost irrelevant.

If it was my money, the ew300 would be just fine - not quite sure the price increase justifies the ew500 over the ew300.

and on the power - my assumption is that 12V would be 12V as long as the amperage is there to power the other receivers. I haven't ever done it, but I'd probably do that myself.

 

[Chris15]

The actual radios between the ew100/300/500 lines are all the same.

Interesting...
Normally it's a case of the more you pay, the better the front end filter on the receiver, and having that better discrimination reduced the number of intermods that could get in the way.
All that meant you could stack more into the same space safely...

But I can totally believe that it's just a marketing difference...

 

[themuzicman]

Interesting...
Normally it's a case of the more you pay, the better the front end filter on the receiver, and having that better discrimination reduced the number of intermods that could get in the way.
All that meant you could stack more into the same space safely...

But I can totally believe that it's just a marketing difference...

It's totally a possibility that the tracking filters on the receivers are better but I've always treated the lineups interchangeably, at a minimum the transmitters are all doing the same thing because they all have the same companding front-end. I imagine if the receiver filters were built in a different fashion across the lineups we'd see marketing language to reflect a system that can handle a little more density and no matter how hard I look I can't find that language. I coordinate in IAS and even that program only sees a distinction between G1/G2/G3 and not 100/300/500.

 

[AudJ]

Well, let's look at it this way - the vendor I got a quote from said sennhiser doesn't have a guitar set (no mic) in the 300. So, given the rebates, the ew500 is cheaper than the ew300 by almost $100 ea., because I am paying for a lav mic I don't need with the 300 series. Is there a 300 available as a set without the mic?

The ew 100 is significantly cheaper, but since (I think) I have funds, it sounds like the 300 would be worth it, but not the 500, assuming I can get a guitar set?

 

[Aaron Becker]

Speaking as someone who was a die-hard Shure fan for many, many years... I recently purchased some used Sennhesier EW500 gear, and used a significant amount of EW100 gear on rentals for a few years, I was sold on it. The added features and user-friendliness of the gear for the same or lower price, compiled with Shure's recent price hikes has made me stray away from Shure over the years.

 

[TimMc]

Well, let's look at it this way - the vendor I got a quote from said sennhiser doesn't have a guitar set (no mic) in the 300. So, given the rebates, the ew500 is cheaper than the ew300 by almost $100 ea., because I am paying for a lav mic I don't need with the 300 series. Is there a 300 available as a set without the mic?

The ew 100 is significantly cheaper, but since (I think) I have funds, it sounds like the 300 would be worth it, but not the 500, assuming I can get a guitar set?

All you need to "convert" a body pack lav system to a body pack guitar system is the appropriate input cable for the transmitter pack. Keep the lav mic as a bulky spare.

 

[cekren]

All you need to "convert" a body pack lav system to a body pack guitar system is the appropriate input cable for the transmitter pack. Keep the lav mic as a bulky spare.

Spec'ing the Sennheiser EW systems with the instrument cable rather than the ME4/ME2 lav saves about $150 per channel purchased. OP would be looking for a "Sennheiser EW372G3" - though I don't believe Sennheiser actually offers that particular combination.

 

[Aaron Becker]

Spec'ing the Sennheiser EW systems with the instrument cable rather than the ME4/ME2 lav saves about $150 per channel purchased. OP would be looking for a "Sennheiser EW372G3" - though I don't believe Sennheiser actually offers that particular combination.

I haven't priced wireless gear for purchase recently, and I usually have my sales rep do it anyways, so forgive my ignorance on the model numbers - but couldn't one order the tx/rx as separate components and "build" the "guitar" set - or just order a set without any attachment/mic for the bodypack, and then purchase separately? Some time ago I remember realizing that usually the components were priced out to make up the price of the kit, spare a few dollars, if purchased separately.

 

[cekren]

I haven't priced wireless gear for purchase recently, and I usually have my sales rep do it anyways, so forgive my ignorance on the model numbers - but couldn't one order the tx/rx as separate components and "build" the "guitar" set - or just order a set without any attachment/mic for the bodypack, and then purchase separately? Some time ago I remember realizing that usually the components were priced out to make up the price of the kit, spare a few dollars, if purchased separately.

A quick look at public pricing for Sennheiser puts the combo kit about $170-190 cheaper than buying the TX and RX separately (for EW100-G3 systems, at least)

 

[Aaron Becker]

A quick look at public pricing for Sennheiser puts the combo kit about $170-190 cheaper than buying the TX and RX separately (for EW100-G3 systems, at least)

I concur. It must've been my sales rep adjusting prices to make it work out either way. I stand corrected.

 

[AudJ]

Sennheiser rep says to check the polarity of the power outlet of my AKG PS4000 coax antenna distro feed to determine if it will work/hurt Sennheiser gear - looks like both are 12v.

Is there an easy way to do that? Meter the coax? How do I know the polarity of the Sennheiser?

 

[Aaron Becker]

Sennheiser rep says to check the polarity of the power outlet of my AKG PS4000 coax antenna distro feed to determine if it will work/hurt Sennheiser gear - looks like both are 12v.

Is there an easy way to do that? Meter the coax? How do I know the polarity of the Sennheiser?

Put a voltmeter on the PSU, red to the tip, black to the shield/shell, and see if you get +12 or -12. Do you have any Senny PSUs laying around? Do the same with those. If not, you'd have to check the manual for the receiver. If you're lucky, it might say on the back of the receiver "tip positive." Or, contact Senny and ask them about your specific model if all that fails.

 

[manuallyfocused]

Are you open to looking at refurbished units? I've had great luck getting much lower pricing on refurb units from Alto Music (between $450 and $600 for 300-series and 500-series of various types). We've also gotten away with having one 300 series unit and doing all of our frequency coordination with its built-in frequencies, then manually programming the rest of out 100 series units to those frequencies to increase our effective channel count.

 

[AudJ]

Are you open to looking at refurbished units? I've had great luck getting much lower pricing on refurb units from Alto Music (between $450 and $600 for 300-series and 500-series of various types). We've also gotten away with having one 300 series unit and doing all of our frequency coordination with its built-in frequencies, then manually programming the rest of out 100 series units to those frequencies to increase our effective channel count.

Unfortunately, this is a public school bid process, so I doubt refurb would be easy to persue. Just hoping promised funding surfaces this week. Bids are going out now, so hopefully everything will be set to go under rebate.

 

[NickVon]

The actual radios between the ew100/300/500 lines are all the same. Don't confuse programmed frequency banks with the ability to actually pack more wireless into the same bandwidth -- the ew500 just has more pre-programmed frequencies per bank than the ew100/300.

The difference between the lines is in the features in the transmitters and receivers. You gain an ethernet port in the ew300 over the ew100 so you can monitor from WSM, you also gain a headphone port on the front of the unit. I haven't been able to ever find an appreciable difference between the 300 and 500 - the 500 seems to have marginally better THD but it's so small as to be almost irrelevant.

If it was my money, the ew300 would be just fine - not quite sure the price increase justifies the ew500 over the ew300.

and on the power - my assumption is that 12V would be 12V as long as the amperage is there to power the other receivers. I haven't ever done it, but I'd probably do that myself.

I think the 300's as Systems, also come with Rack mount gear. I do not think the 100's do.

 

[themuzicman]

I think the 300's as Systems, also come with Rack mount gear. I do not think the 100's do.

You can always buy the rack-mount kits separately, but that is a good point - I only ever see things out of rental shops so I have no experience whether or not the ew100's are rack mounted.

 

[cekren]

You can always buy the rack-mount kits separately, but that is a good point - I only ever see things out of rental shops so I have no experience whether or not the ew100's are rack mounted.

I've seen 100 series available with and without the rackmount kit. You only need one rack mount kit per 1U pair of receivers, though.