Mixers/Consoles Help with feed back

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by Crisp image, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Crisp image

    Crisp image Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,
    Beginner question.
    I recently was working along side an audio guy and he had a small problem of one monitor feeding back when a female performer got near it.
    Now here is my list of fixes in no particular order. What would you do?
    1. Cut the mic level to the monitor
    2. EQ the frequency out (low frequency) of the monitor
    3. EQ the freqnency out of the mic. (female performer and feedback was a low rumble frequency guessing 100-300htz)

    My thought is that the easiest thing to do is cut the level in the monitor which she does not here herself in them. Unless she wants to hear herself then it is not a problem.

    Anyway now it is up to you to educate me a little more with your opinions and vast knowledge.

    Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

    Regards
    Geoff
     
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  2. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  3. Crisp image

    Crisp image Well-Known Member

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    When I said dropping the level on the monitor I did mean only her level in that monitor.
     
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  4. steine

    steine Active Member

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    I agree with @RonHebbard on this, cut the low end on her michrphone if she is the only artist using it.

    1 can be done, but then you constant need to fader-jockey her and the risk of pulling her back up too high is present.

    2 could perhaps be done, buty as he mention it will effect the entire mix in that monitor, not only her mic.
     
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  5. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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  6. Aaron Becker

    Aaron Becker Well-Known Member

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    What type of microphones? If as Tim suggested above, it's lapel/headworn/earmount/not a handheld - they probably shouldn't be in the monitors unless you have a ton of gain-before-feedback on the system and it's tuned up real nice for that specific purpose. If it's a handheld, get the singer to correctly use the microphone (none of that 18" away stuff) and drop her level in the monitor. If the mics are overheads, should never be in on-stage monitors.
     
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  7. Crisp image

    Crisp image Well-Known Member

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    It was a bitsa program. Some musical numbers, some dialog, some singing. The mic in question was a headset mic (not sure of the brand).


    I suspect the system that has been newly installed has not been fully tuned yet. She was moving all over the stage so I agree she should have not been in the monitors. All the tech was saying "if they had inears........"
    Regards
    Geoff
     
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  8. Lextech

    Lextech Well-Known Member

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    Depends. Might make sense to EQ a wedge if there is more than one open mic on stage. What else is in the monitor? Might EQ the mic channel if it just her. Was the feedback in her vocal range? How loud are we talking, can we just turn the mix down and get away with it. I mix lots of concerts and feedback control is always a at the moment question/decision after the show starts. However, if I am mixing monitors from FOH that will change my thought process differently then a dedicated monitor console. There is no cut and dry answer to a question like this, it all depends on what, where and how you are set up.
     
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  9. macsound

    macsound Well-Known Member

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    My usual EQ style on any speaker with a microphone in front of it is to apply EQ to the speaker, not the microphone. This is mostly monitors and sometimes front fill (in churches and Q&A corporate)

    The reason why I EQ the speaker is because I usually have more accurate EQ abilities on the speaker audio chain than I do on the microphone. If you start chasing feedback with a 4 band PEQ, you'll never be able to apply broad EQ to make the source sound better and you'll runout of EQ bands vs a 31 band EQ on the aux out for the wedge.
    The difficulty comes with certain music styles such as a HPF on a wedge and the performer asking for more bass guitar.

    Overall however - Rolling off the lows on the channel screws your house mix, but the performer is probably ok with a less full mix that's louder than a quieter, more accurate EQ.
     
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  10. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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  11. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Can't remember exactly the joke, but the punchline is something like, "And I dare you to try to put a headworn wireless mic on Ethel Merman."
     
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  13. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  14. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  15. macsound

    macsound Well-Known Member

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    Always doing HPF on vocal microphones is probably one of the most overlooked solutions. Too many times I've listened to a podcast or a presentation at a school, hotel or church and all too often theres a constant low rumble, tons of handling noise and overall lack of intelligibility due to no HPF.

    That being said, I'm still in favor of using channel EQ for shaping the source on that channel and output EQ for solving problems with speakers or other outputs.
    Assistive listening gets distorted with anything below 500Hz? Don't eq every single channel, EQ the feed to the assistive listening.

    Often feedback is also due to a room's resonant frequency and by taking care of those frequencies "permanently" by EQing the speakers, you've solved the problem for everything. Maybe it's only when a synth plays a high G that you get squealing feedback because of a well sized skylight, or when an acoustic guitar plays a D chord with an open low G because of the cavernous under stage storage. Those known room interactive issues should be solved at the speaker EQ or processor level, not every single instrument's input.
     
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  16. blue439

    blue439 Member

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    True, but times have changed. Audiences' expectations of sound quality are higher now that everyone carries a device (their phone) with perfect sound quality on it. An actor yelling on a stage can be heard, but audiences might not find that acceptable now.
     
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  17. teqniqal

    teqniqal Well-Known Member

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    Something that is not being said clearly here is that any EQ'ing you might be doing to reduce feedback between the headset mic(s) and the stage (wedge) monitor(s) should only be done in the mix of that mic to that monitor, not in the over-all system (albeit, the HPF at 150-250 may also apply to the house, but do that as needed for the house mix separately from what is needed for the monitor mix) . If you don't have a separate monitor mix console, then simply parallel the mic to an unused input channel and do what you need to do there relative to the stage monitor(s) without sending that mix to the house or any other sub-mix.
     
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  18. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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  19. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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  20. TimMc

    TimMc Well-Known Member

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