Mixers/Consoles Help with feed back

[FMEng]

True, but times have changed. Audiences' expectations of sound quality are higher now that everyone carries a device (their phone) with perfect sound quality on it. An actor yelling on a stage can be heard, but audiences might not find that acceptable now.

And sometimes those same devices are making their owners deaf. The other day, I passed a father and young daughter walking down the sidewalk. The daughter had earbuds on, which I could hear about 25 feet away. I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut.

Maybe the next, big class action lawsuit should be against phones that are capable of playing at harmful SPL levels.

 

[TimMc]

And sometimes those same devices are making their owners deaf. The other day, I passed a father and young daughter walking down the sidewalk. The daughter had earbuds on, which I could hear about 25 feet away. I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut.

Maybe the next, big class action lawsuit should be against phones that are capable of playing at harmful SPL levels.

On many playback devices you get an on-screen warning that requires acknowledgement of possible harmful SPL before you can turn up past a certain point. Doesn't stop anyone.

 

[RonHebbard]

And sometimes those same devices are making their owners deaf. The other day, I passed a father and young daughter walking down the sidewalk. The daughter had earbuds on, which I could hear about 25 feet away. I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut.

Maybe the next, big class action lawsuit should be against phones that are capable of playing at harmful SPL levels.

@ FMENG When you wrote: "I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut." Possibly they were both already too deaf to hear you??
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebard

 

[RonHebbard]

And sometimes those same devices are making their owners deaf. The other day, I passed a father and young daughter walking down the sidewalk. The daughter had earbuds on, which I could hear about 25 feet away. I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut.

Maybe the next, big class action lawsuit should be against phones that are capable of playing at harmful SPL levels.

@FMEng When you wrote : "I felt like saying something, but I kept my mouth shut." Possibly you'd be wasting your time, possibly they were both deaf already.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[macsound]

What is perfect sound quality? Most of what is heard via consumer ear buds has been processed and "mastered" to be played on sketchy buds with poor/nonexistent ear canal seal, with very little dynamic range. However, for those that listen in active environments the lack of dynamics may mean a better listener experience *perception*. What they hear may not bear a significant tonal or dynamic relationship to recording as released by the artist and producer, though. What is perfect sound quality?

I've noticed a trend to "can you make everything louder than everything else?". The result is a finely honed (or not) audio track with 3dB dynamic range and soup can EQ with a bass boost the size of Texas. I guess some people like. :shock:

Super agree that whatever people think is "perfect" sound quality sounds absolutely awful on anything better than $5 7-11 earbuds. Greatest Showman is my example of something that could be enjoyable if the audio wasn't butchered so much.

Also agree Tim that we're probably very much in agreement. I think the point I was getting at is the difference between tuning the speaker vs tuning the speaker in the space and realizing that the perceived frequency response of a speaker includes resonance and reflection based on speaker location and room composition which can absolutely contribute to feedback.

 

[TimMc]

Super agree that whatever people think is "perfect" sound quality sounds absolutely awful on anything better than $5 7-11 earbuds. Greatest Showman is my example of something that could be enjoyable if the audio wasn't butchered so much.

Also agree Tim that we're probably very much in agreement. I think the point I was getting at is the difference between tuning the speaker vs tuning the speaker in the space and realizing that the perceived frequency response of a speaker includes resonance and reflection based on speaker location and room composition which can absolutely contribute to feedback.

Feedback is a loop so path length determines frequency and amplitude determines potential for regeneration. Like so much in audio, what one can do is based on "it depends...."

Care to join me in the Wayback Machine to take modern DSP back to the 1960s? We'd be wizards and sorcerers!

 

[BCAP]

Hi All,
Beginner question.
I recently was working along side an audio guy and he had a small problem of one monitor feeding back when a female performer got near it.
Now here is my list of fixes in no particular order. What would you do?
1. Cut the mic level to the monitor
2. EQ the frequency out (low frequency) of the monitor
3. EQ the freqnency out of the mic. (female performer and feedback was a low rumble frequency guessing 100-300htz)

My thought is that the easiest thing to do is cut her level in the monitor which she does not here herself in them. Unless she wants to hear herself then it is not a problem.

Anyway now it is up to you to educate me a little more with your opinions and vast knowledge.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

Regards
Geoff

Well, the easiest thing to do at first may indeed be to cut her level in the monitor. However, I presume the reason why her signal is in the monitor in the first place is because she wants to hear herself? Maybe RIDING the monitor feed would be more effective if she's only in the proximity of the monitor and thus prone to feedback for a moment.

I have been yelled at in the past for lowering a musicians' signal in their monitors due to feedback or distortion or some other issue. If you have a picky performer who will complain when their signal is lowered in the monitors then maybe it's better for your situation overall to attempt to fix feedback with EQ. At least that's going to be a little harder for the performer to hear while you're tweaking...

If you do a few things while setting up your mix you can avoid a lot of problems. A low rumble frequency in the monitor is the type of feedback that could be addressed with a low cut on the channel or on the monitor done during mix setup. For voice-only channels and voice-only monitors, there may not be any need to have those low frequencies in there to begin with.

I originally posted a longer list of things, if you still want to see that I'm happy to repost.

 

[Crisp image]

Well, the easiest thing to do at first may indeed be to cut her level in the monitor. However, I presume the reason why her signal is in the monitor in the first place is because she wants to hear herself? Maybe RIDING the monitor feed would be more effective if she's only in the proximity of the monitor and thus prone to feedback for a moment.

I have been yelled at in the past for lowering a musicians' signal in their monitors due to feedback or distortion or some other issue. If you have a picky performer who will complain when their signal is lowered in the monitors then maybe it's better for your situation overall to attempt to fix feedback with EQ. At least that's going to be a little harder for the performer to hear while you're tweaking...

If you do a few things while setting up your mix you can avoid a lot of problems. A low rumble frequency in the monitor is the type of feedback that could be addressed with a low cut on the channel or on the monitor done during mix setup. For voice-only channels and voice-only monitors, there may not be any need to have those low frequencies in there to begin with.

I originally posted a longer list of things, if you still want to see that I'm happy to repost.

I saw your longer post in my email feed. Thanks for a great read and some options to try. Like I said the feedback was a low rumbling frequency and not the usual high pitch. My choice on the day would have been cut the lows from her mic as a start and then see what happened from there. I was on lights that night not sound but I am trying to get better at sound to increase my overall knowledge because as a theatre tech at the local PAC I have to cover all bases even if it is a babysitting job for touring groups.

 

[Aaron Becker]

All the tech was saying "if they had inears........"

In-Ears are not the appropriate solution to a feedback problem nor a poorly tuned or inadequately run system.

 

[Crisp image]

In-Ears are not the appropriate solution to a feedback problem nor a poorly tuned or inadequately run system.

I totally agree. My statement was "all the tech was saying" and in this case I use the word tech loosely very very loosely.